A nightmare.

Fidur

Fidur

Chumono
Messages
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Location
Canary Islands , Spain. Europe
USDA Zone
12
Phytophtora
Last august I was aware of a problem in my trees. So I opened a thread to get information on what could be happening.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/help-help-help.66290/
In short, some of my conifers were having generalized dieback in the branches.
So I began to fight what seemed a fungus. I applied a systemic fungicide (to all my trees), alternating weekly with hydrogen peroxide and propolis. A month later it seemed I couldn't stop the problem, so I researched, and talked with an expert who told me it was phytophthora (likely the cinnamon one). It's not a fungus. If you want to have an idea of what it is, look here

Since then, it seems it's been progressing. I've already lost , 9 cotoneasters, 3 chamaecyparis lawsoniana, 12 chamaecyparis thyoides, 2 cryptomerias , 2 JWP (one of them 24 years old) and one juniper. These have all already been binned.
I'm still fighting to "save" (and loosing) about 12 more trees (among them my most loved).
And about 40 more are not ( yet ) showing symptoms.

I've been thinking about this, and belive me, I can trace back the origin of the infestation to the soil of one chamaecyparis thyoides "top point" I bought in a nurserie 18 months ago. It's terrible, but my backyard soil ( and the trees in it) are now affected as well ( 3 big plums).
In the past I have been very attentive to the use of clean draining soils in every repot and the desinfection of my tools. It seems it was in vane

If you've read the link about phytophtora , you'll know I ,and for that matter, no one, will ever get rid of it (unless I destroy all my trees, garden plants, and change the garden and backyard soil).

I'm so sad. I'm leaving any hope to recover my bonsai garden....I would have prefered to have all my collection stollen than having phytophtora (at least I could have had a fresh start in the first case)
My only hope is to somehow have some control of the desease in the surviving trees and live with it (I should have to assume that any new addition to my collection is gonna be doomed)

So, as much as bonsai has given me in the last 4 years, I'm thinking to quit... and I can´t even gift any of my trees to anyone.

Am I being too pesimistic?....I can´t find any reason for hope right now.
 
Given what you are currently dealing with, I don't blame you for thinking this way.

Reading the pamphlet that you linked makes this sound like a very serious biological incident. Have you contacted the nursery that you bought the suspect plant from? Have you contacted your local government resources to see if they can help contain the spread?

If it has gotten to the point of spreading to your landscape plants, I'd would be very worried about it further spreading to other plants in the general area and I am sure your local government would be as well.

I emphasize with what is going on. I certainly hope your trees pull through that still can and the others don't become infected.

Watching your journey through bonsai when I myself was just getting started in the hobby was inspiring to me. One of your trees in its red pot inspired me to actively look for a similar species at my nurseries when you first posted it on Reddit. I have loved watching it progess through the years. It will always be in my memories of one of the first bonsai I saw and thought that I could do that.

Seeing the pictures of your trees had also inspired me to improve my own photography skills in capturing my trees. Your photos are instantly recognizable to me.

As I said in the beginning, I wouldn't blame you for quitting or taking an extended break after going through something like this. I certainly hope you stick around or even find ways to still participate in the hobby. Traveling to shows and taking pictures of the events to name one.

Whatever your course ahead is yours to decide, but regardless I and others on this site are here to support you however we can.
 
Oof! That pdf paints a pretty bleak picture! Have you contacted large nurseries, universities, or extension offices (do you have extension offices over there?) to see if you can find someone with experience dealing with, treating, or eradicating this pathogen? Have you tested to verify the specific pathogen you're up against?
 
Kievnstavick said:
Given what you are currently dealing with, I don't blame you for thinking this way.

Reading the pamphlet that you linked makes this sound like a very serious biological incident. Have you contacted the nursery that you bought the suspect plant from? Have you contacted your local government resources to see if they can help contain the spread?

If it has gotten to the point of spreading to your landscape plants, I'd would be very worried about it further spreading to other plants in the general area and I am sure your local government would be as well.

I emphasize with what is going on. I certainly hope your trees pull through that still can and the others don't become infected.

Watching your journey through bonsai when I myself was just getting started in the hobby was inspiring to me. One of your trees in its red pot inspired me to actively look for a similar species at my nurseries when you first posted it on Reddit. I have loved watching it progess through the years. It will always be in my memories of one of the first bonsai I saw and thought that I could do that.

Seeing the pictures of your trees had also inspired me to improve my own photography skills in capturing my trees. Your photos are instantly recognizable to me.

As I said in the beginning, I wouldn't blame you for quitting or taking an extended break after going through something like this. I certainly hope you stick around or even find ways to still participate in the hobby. Traveling to shows and taking pictures of the events to name one.

Whatever your course ahead is yours to decide, but regardless I and others on this site are here to support you however we can.
Click to expand...
" Have you contacted the nursery that you bought the suspect plant from? Have you contacted your local government resources to see if they can help contain the spread?"
No, I haven't yet. But I could read some documentation on this desease in the Canary Islands. It seems it is present in some avocado fields, and in a 2006 study they also found it in 4 out of 7 commercial nurseries here. It represents a great threat to the remains of a Tertiary forrest called "Laurisilva" that is present in my island (though 10 km away from my home). So I will talk with agricultural agents to tell them about the problem.

As much as I'm sad and pessimistic about my bonsai future, I plan to keep fighting to learn how to control the desease in my survivors. I know I will never eradicate the desease in my garden, but I've read that using metalaxyl and phosphonates can work. So I will not be quitting for now.

For reference, these are 50% of my trees in September. At least 15 of them are now dead or dying

56eblzkegdnd1.jpeg

Anyway, some of my survivors seem completely safe against phytophtora and those will be my collection from now on....

Edit: I can´t say goodbye to my passion for bonsai, so I will find ways to continue, even in this circunstances. So forget my doubts about it.
 
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I remember just over a year ago, you were pretty distraught and leaving this site. But you’re still here! All will be well Fidur, everything is temporary and that’s ok. You seem to have your health and probably still a joy for this. My only advice would be. If it’s diseased or susceptible to the disease. Just bail on that species. Focus on what specifically thrives in almost any condition in YOUR environment.

During Covid I lost almost half my collection due to a similar situation. The next year I lost most of the rest from a watering disaster. Much of what I lost were trees from nurseries that are sold country wide. Plants that just don’t belong here. Since sticking strictly to native plants or plants that I know thrive here, it’s been smoothish sailing. Learning also that any of my plants can go at any point is something I’ve come at peace with also. Just part of the game.

Don’t give up, just adjust. Keep it going bro.
 
Your plants are speculator. I am really sorry to hear about his and I feel your pain.
In California we have seen a different species of Phytophthora devastating our native trees and shrubs. This pathogen came from imported (to the Bay Area) nursery stock and spread with the sale of infected plants. Not all trees with P. show symptoms however but spread the spores infecting susceptible species.

BMP include keeping plants off the ground. I know you have benches, but watering is the likely cause of spreading the spores from pot to pot. The film of water on the benches can be taken up through the legs of a pot, or splashing water from one pot to another. Bonsai collections are often crowded next to one another.
It bothers me when I see videos of B growers watering overhead with a back and forth over lots of plants at once. (A topic for another day: Why do people water the foliage like rain when the plant gets it's water from the soil?)

Keep the hose breaker off the ground is another.

Diagnosis is key to "solving" this issue.
There are ELISA test strips available to "confirm" Phytophthora cinnamomi.
Here is just one of them

Nano Diagnostics

Nano Diagnostics
www.nanodiaincs.com www.nanodiaincs.com

You must have a major Ag department close to you. Collect a sample and get it to them ASAP.

Confirming the Diagnoses

Confirming the Phytophthora Diagnosis Once you make a preliminary diagnosis of Phytophthora, laboratory tests will be needed to confirm it. These tests may be done on site, if your nursery has the resources, or you can send samples to a public or private lab. (If the species of Phytophthora is...
horticulture.oregonstate.edu horticulture.oregonstate.edu
 
I'd also think about adding drainage to everything. French drains at the edge of your property ...or at least at the edge of your bonsai area to help pull water away. I'd also consider putting all your planters on an angle and modifying the containers so that they'll drain at their new angle. I'd also be pretty attentive to cleaning up debris, leaves, and removed branches. At minimum have a place away from your plants. I might consider regularly burning them as well, until you can get the problem under control. The footbath thing seems a bit too far for most scenarios, but I've seen it mentioned in other places and if it can be implemented easily (and aesthetically?), it might make sense since this pathogen's known to be in your vicinity.

Here's an article with a pretty extensive rundown of chemical treatments toward the end. https://pnwhandbooks.org/plantdisea...es/diagnosis-management-phytophthora-diseases
 
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Sorry to hear about your losses. There is a couple on the east coast of the US that homestead in a cabin in the woods. They have been having serious trouble with plants and trees dying in increasing numbers on their property, so much so that they have gone to growing much of their food crops in a greenhouse, protected from the fallout. They have very good evidence that the situation is caused by weather modification techniques by the government or ???... The channel on Youtube is "Boss of the Swamp". Here is a video explaining exactly what he has observed. The geoengineering starts at about the 20 minute mark.
 
@Fidur this is the only time I can ever recommend any ProBio products, but the danu + maru combination was good to suppress phytophtora for 5 months.

The best fighters against fungi, are bacteria and other fungi.
I can send you a sample of my best performing fungus if you want. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. Let me know if you're interested.
 
Man, this is horrible and devastating news and I feel so sorry for you.
I really hope you can still have faith in your bonsai journey.
 
I lost all of my non-tropical trees (except for 2) a few winters ago. Sucks. But quitters never win.
You have to power through and continue the art that you love.
I've yet to replace any of my non-trops.
 
I followed your thread.. such a sad thing to hear. I try to imagine your worries.
Hope you can still get it to stop. Sending my bests 🙏
 
As others have said, your trees are instantly recognizable and I'm so sorry you've been hit with this.

Try to remember that your trees are more than the plants in pots. They contain the experience of countless hours of satisfying work, joy, and fulfillment. No disease can go back in time and take away those happy hours.
 
Very sorry to hear about this, just curious if you had the soil tested?

Also wondering which trees aren't affected, in other words are they more zone appropriate species?

I've always been amazed at what species you are growing that shouldn't thrive in zone 12

There are lots of anecdotal stories in the USA about trees limping along out of their natural range for years, then giving up.

Just a thought, good luck sir and don't give up!
 
I'm really sorry, @Fidur . Nature gives with one hand and takes with the other.

We started around the same time. I have a bunch of seedlings now, but you have a fantastically beautiful bonsai garden. I have to say, you have true talent. Your trees are among my favorites on all of BNut. Your eye for bonsai is superb and you develop your trees very quickly. I would absolutely hate it if you were to quit. Even if you have to reset completely, as frustrating as that is, you'll have a better bonsai garden than I will have 4 years from now.

I look forward to seeing where you take your bonsai from here, even if you have to start over.
 
Fidur said:
I can´t say goodbye to my passion for bonsai, so I will find ways to continue, even in this circumstance. So forget my doubts about it.
Click to expand...

Well Done! Keeping the passion to drive one on, even when all odds are seemingly against you is a special talent.

Cheers
DSD sends
 
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