A Japanese Black Pine

[markyscott]

The tree looks great. Just spit balling here, but would it make sense to de-candle now (early?), and keep feeding into the fall? That would be my inclination, but mine is far from an expert opinion. Glad your posting these updates.

Dave

Thanks Dave - we're all students here. Any time between early July and mid August is a good time to decandle in my area. I usually decandle larger ones early and smaller ones late, although this year they all went on the same day.

This tree suffers from lanky growth and a lack of ramification close to the trunk, so the goal is to produce back budding in order to chase growth back to the trunk. Decandling last year produced some back budding, but not a lot. Decandling now would probably push growth into the backbuds that have developed, but I think it will be more effective after another year of growth as it will allow the tree to gather strength. If spring growth is very strong, I may try to decandle in the fall in an attempt to push buds. I'm hoping that skipping this year will give me that choice.

Scott

 

[jkd2572]

I think the needle size that is on it now looks nicely proportional for the tree size. I would always decandle early on this guy to keep the needle length a little larger. Nice big tree.

 

[markyscott]

Tine to decandle. I didn't do it last year, but this year it grew pretty strong. Candles had no necks - made it really hard. Looks like a plucked chicken in the end.



Scott

 

[markyscott]

Pine party.


Almost done with the cleanup. This time of year involves needle pulling (I fine tune for balance in the spring), bud selection, some cut back, and cleaning up the top soil. I also do some wiring this time of year.


A bit more wiring on the apex and I can put this guy to bed for the season.

Scott

 

[namnhi]

Pine party.
View attachment 124933

Almost done with the cleanup. This time of year involves needle pulling (I fine tune for balance in the spring), bud selection, some cut back, and cleaning up the top soil. I also do some wiring this time of year.
View attachment 124934

A bit more wiring on the apex and I can put this guy to bed for the season.

Scott

Scott have you ever consider removing the bottom-most branch and the one on the left side? The bar branch a little bit troublesome. Removing those two branches that will make it a very elegant tree. Just a thought....

 

[markyscott]

Scott have you ever consider removing the bottom-most branch and the one on the left side? The bar branch a little bit troublesome. Removing those two branches that will make it a very elegant tree. Just a thought....

Hi Namnhi. Interesting thought - I hadn't considered it before.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

All done for this season. Good to keep a photo record. Day to day it's hard to see changes, but when you compare things over a few years you can start to see progress.

2016 vs 2012



Scott

 

[markyscott]

Spring 2017. Buds are starting to break and the grafting I did last year looks good. As you see, I'm feeding heavy in preparation for decandling in July - the fertilizer cakes as you see plus once a week liquid fertilizer. I mostly use fish emulsion - it smells like something I would like if I were a tree. I'll stop all fertilization after I decandle, bust start up again in the fall.



Quite a bit more grafting next year.

 

[my nellie]

Fascinating all your work, the tree's progress and of course the fact that now you are "holding" your tree's genealogy!

 

[Adair M]

Spring 2017. Buds are starting to break and the grafting I did last year looks good. As you see, I'm feeding heavy in preparation for decandling in July - the fertilizer cakes as you see plus once a week liquid fertilizer. I mostly use fish emulsion - it smells like something I would like if I were a tree. I'll stop all fertilization after I decandle, bust start up again in the fall.

View attachment 137487 View attachment 137488

Quite a bit more grafting next year.

Good job, Scott, it's looking great!

When doing your next set of grafts, don't forget the Ume! (I like the pink ones.)

 

[markyscott]

Good job, Scott, it's looking great!

When doing your next set of grafts, don't forget the Ume! (I like the pink ones.)

Of course - nothing better than a Japanese Black Pine in flower with beautiful pink blossoms.

On a serious note though, this tree underlines the importance of grafting in bonsai. If you purchase an old black pine in the US, chances are good that it was not maintained well at some point in its life. JBP that are not maintained can get old leggy branches without interior branching to cut back to. This tree suffers from it, as does another Black Pine I've been working on. Old branches on a black pine do not bud back very readily, so the only solution is grafting to restore the form and foliage density we're looking for on pines. So the lesson is - if you want to buy an old black pine, be prepared to graft. Recognize that it can take years to get the tree back into shape, so start with really good material. If you don't want to graft, grow one yourself from seed or be prepared to pay a premium to buy one from that's been well taken care of.

 

[Adair M]

Of course - nothing better than a Japanese Black Pine in flower with beautiful pink blossoms.

On a serious note though, this tree underlines the importance of grafting in bonsai. If you purchase an old black pine in the US, chances are good that it was not maintained well at some point in its life. JBP that are not maintained can get old leggy branches without interior branching to cut back to. This tree suffers from it, as does another Black Pine I've been working on. Old branches on a black pine do not bud back very readily, so the only solution is grafting to restore the form and foliage density we're looking for on pines. So the lesson is - if you want to buy an old black pine, be prepared to graft. Recognize that it can take years to get the tree back into shape, so start with really good material. If you don't want to graft, grow one yourself from seed or be prepared to pay a premium to buy one from that's been well taken care of.

Very good advice, Scott!

The same is true for not only JBP, but for all Pines. Actually, JBP is one of the easiest to get to backbud.

But grafting can be very helpful.

 

[markyscott]

Very good advice, Scott!

The same is true for not only JBP, but for all Pines. Actually, JBP is one of the easiest to get to backbud.

But grafting can be very helpful.

LOL - JBP may be the easiest of the Japanese pines to get to back bud (not sure their easier than loblolly, as an example) but those 20+ year old branches aren't producing any back buds in my lifetime I think.

BTW - I found a picture of this tree sitting on Jim Gremel's bench that I took when I was thinking about buying it. Taken in November 2011, this is the oldest picture of it that I have.

 

[Adair M]

Scott, I'm not second guessing the decision to graft. No, that's the right way to go. I guess I didn't make my point very well.

Let me try again:

While JBP will backbud easier than most other pines, there's no guarantee they ever will. Grafting, while not 100% will take, is the fastest and surest way to get branches where you want them.

 

[markyscott]

Scott, I'm not second guessing the decision to graft. No, that's the right way to go. I guess I didn't make my point very well.

Let me try again:

While JBP will backbud easier than most other pines, there's no guarantee they ever will. Grafting, while not 100% will take, is the fastest and surest way to get branches where you want them.

No doubt - I think we're agreeing with each other, just stressing slightly different points about the same subject. I agree with everything you said, but I'd add that the likelihood of getting a back bud decreases with the age of the branch. In other words, branches a few years old will back bud quite readily whereas branches a couple of decades old are much less likely to produce one. So one is increasingly reliant on grafting when you're dealing with old branches.

 

[Adair M]

Scott, how many Shiners is that tree? I'm not talking about height... I'm asking how many will you drink while you're wiring it?

 

[markyscott]

Scott, how many Shiners is that tree? I'm not talking about height... I'm asking how many will you drink while you're wiring it?

Just waiting on the next shipment from the brewery and I'll be able to knock this one out

 

[Dav4]

Just waiting on the next shipment from the brewery and I'll be able to knock this one out

One word- Kegerator!
https://www.kegerator.com/kegerator-conversion-kits/

 

[Adair M]

Scott, that tree has a nice buttress, like an old tree, but the tree still looks "young". At least it does to me.

I wonder if you have thought about the apex? It's very pointy, and as you know, that's the sign of a young pine. The other is the angle the branches are placed. If they were set to hang downward more, they could be even longer, yet convey that feeling of age.

There used to be a wonderful old pine in Decatur that had long slender hanging branches that swept almost to the ground. The image still sticks in my mind if what an old loblolly pine standing alone looks like. I've never found appropriate material to replicate it, but your tree comes close.

There's also a tree near my house that has similar branches. I'll stop andtake a picture.

 

[markyscott]

Scott, that tree has a nice buttress, like an old tree, but the tree still looks "young". At least it does to me.

I wonder if you have thought about the apex? It's very pointy, and as you know, that's the sign of a young pine. The other is the angle the branches are placed. If they were set to hang downward more, they could be even longer, yet convey that feeling of age.

There used to be a wonderful old pine in Decatur that had long slender hanging branches that swept almost to the ground. The image still sticks in my mind if what an old loblolly pine standing alone looks like. I've never found appropriate material to replicate it, but your tree comes close.

There's also a tree near my house that has similar branches. I'll stop andtake a picture.

Thanks for the feedback, Adair. I understand your point about the apex - it's been reduced several times but still hasn't come into its own. Perhaps the next styling.

I would certainly appreciate the pictures.