The 2022 Yamadori/Collecting Thread
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PonderingSage:
Shohin
Neo_Rokkenjima
Yamadori
Serious newbie question here, but what exactly is with this phenomenon of people pulling stumps out of the ground and calling them 'bonsai'? When I think of "yamadori," I think of people going out into the wilderness and collecting either rescue seedlings or interesting tree/ shrub specimens (usually a dwarfish thing with a lot of deadwood-- or a transportable, fully live, and interesting tree.) This can also happen when bonsai professionals do work in peoples' gardens. There's an amount of care that goes into the selection and collection of these trees from the wild.
Yet, I see many trees being posted here which are essentially stumps. They have no foliage, and possess brutishly-large, flat-cuts where the upper body of the tree was separated from its trunk. Is this an ordinary practice in bonsai? How does the tree survive this process? Further, if the tree does somehow survive, then how does it eventually look when it is turned into a bonsai? Wouldn't the cut cause the tree to become prohibitively hideous over time? I have so many questions about why people do this, and no answers.
If somebody could please explain this all to me, I would be highly appreciative. I am probably just too new to tree-keeping to understand.
Yet, I see many trees being posted here which are essentially stumps. They have no foliage, and possess brutishly-large, flat-cuts where the upper body of the tree was separated from its trunk. Is this an ordinary practice in bonsai? How does the tree survive this process? Further, if the tree does somehow survive, then how does it eventually look when it is turned into a bonsai? Wouldn't the cut cause the tree to become prohibitively hideous over time? I have so many questions about why people do this, and no answers.
If somebody could please explain this all to me, I would be highly appreciative. I am probably just too new to tree-keeping to understand.
Hartinez
Masterpiece
I certainly can’t speak specifics to the definition of yamadori, but in terms of your answer of how could these stumps become bonsai? I assure you it happens all the time. There are a quite a few of threads on this forum of alone, of a blank stump being grown out and turned into an excellent tree. Sometimes the chop scar is hidden away from the viewer, sometimes it is carved and highlighted.Serious newbie question here, but what exactly is with this phenomenon of people pulling stumps out of the ground and calling them 'bonsai'? When I think of "yamadori," I think of people going out into the wilderness and collecting either rescue seedlings or interesting tree/ shrub specimens (usually a dwarfish thing with a lot of deadwood-- or a transportable, fully live, and interesting tree.) This can also happen when bonsai professionals do work in peoples' gardens. There's an amount of care that goes into the selection and collection of these trees from the wild.
Yet, I see many trees being posted here which are essentially stumps. They have no foliage, and possess brutishly-large, flat-cuts where the upper body of the tree was separated from its trunk. Is this an ordinary practice in bonsai? How does the tree survive this process? Further, if the tree does somehow survive, then how does it eventually look when it is turned into a bonsai? Wouldn't the cut cause the tree to become prohibitively hideous over time? I have so many questions about why people do this, and no answers.
If somebody could please explain this all to me, I would be highly appreciative. I am probably just too new to tree-keeping to understand.
Maybe not the absolute best example but I did a quick google search and I think Harry Harrington of Bonsai4me does this very well quite often.
Old Hawthorn Stump Progression Series
Large Website located in the UK, Bonsai4me offers Bonsai Art, Species guides for Bonsai trees, Bonsai galleries and Bonsai Techniques.
bonsai4me.com
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't think anyone here would call what they just dig out of the ground bonsai right away. It takes a number of years before such tree can be called a bonsai.Serious newbie question here, but what exactly is with this phenomenon of people pulling stumps out of the ground and calling them 'bonsai'? When I think of "yamadori," I think of people going out into the wilderness and collecting either rescue seedlings or interesting tree/ shrub specimens (usually a dwarfish thing with a lot of deadwood-- or a transportable, fully live, and interesting tree.) This can also happen when bonsai professionals do work in peoples' gardens. There's an amount of care that goes into the selection and collection of these trees from the wild.
Yet, I see many trees being posted here which are essentially stumps. They have no foliage, and possess brutishly-large, flat-cuts where the upper body of the tree was separated from its trunk. Is this an ordinary practice in bonsai? How does the tree survive this process? Further, if the tree does somehow survive, then how does it eventually look when it is turned into a bonsai? Wouldn't the cut cause the tree to become prohibitively hideous over time? I have so many questions about why people do this, and no answers.
If somebody could please explain this all to me, I would be highly appreciative. I am probably just too new to tree-keeping to understand.
Here is my own example of a stump I pull out of the ground. After the collection it was cut down, there was no foliage, had brutishly-large flat cuts. Yet after 3 years or so it is now at pre-bonsai stage. Perhaps after 10 years, it will qualify as bonsai.
Cjr live oak yamadori #2
Collected another live oak. This one is 6 inch at the base.
Neo_Rokkenjima
Yamadori
Ahh, that makes sense. So the chopped part of the tree is carved, then. I do enjoy deadwood bonsai myself, but I haven't often seen the tree metamorphose from a "chopped trunk" into such a beauty. It is hard to bear witness to something that takes such a long time, unless the transformation has been meticulously catalogued, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of literature on collecting "dead" yamadori.
I am really impressed with what you've been able to do with this tree, in lieu of its original state. Wow! It doesn't even look like the same tree anymore, yet there it is. It has definitely reached the level of pre-bonsai. Thank you for sharing this.
Also: I will try to collect my own yamadori so that I can contribute something to this thread, instead of merely asking questions.
Balbs
Shohin
Bad pictures but this is an American (I think) bittersweet I dug up in March. Growing fast!
Njyamadori
Chumono
I am pretty jealous !
Hartinez
Masterpiece
Amazing what Siberian elms can do after collection.
2 weeks after collection. May 10
Today
2 weeks after collection. May 10
Today
Balbs
Shohin
Right in my back yard. I’ve had my eye on it for a few years. The trunk is ugly right now, but a few inches in diameter At least. I’ll try to get some better pictures.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
That is a beauty!
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
You're not seeing the forest for the trees. "Stumps" are the BEGINNING of a bonsai. There are NO "natural" sculpted bonsai, this mostly goes for conifers and deciduous trees. You collect a mature tree only for the bottom 12-20 inches or so. The rest is regrown and/or managed over time. It's particularly true of deciduous trees, which require drastic reduction then regrowth of an apex. It's pretty much standard procedure for most an substantive deciduous bonsai. Bonsai from seed are an exception, not the rule.Serious newbie question here, but what exactly is with this phenomenon of people pulling stumps out of the ground and calling them 'bonsai'? When I think of "yamadori," I think of people going out into the wilderness and collecting either rescue seedlings or interesting tree/ shrub specimens (usually a dwarfish thing with a lot of deadwood-- or a transportable, fully live, and interesting tree.) This can also happen when bonsai professionals do work in peoples' gardens. There's an amount of care that goes into the selection and collection of these trees from the wild.
Yet, I see many trees being posted here which are essentially stumps. They have no foliage, and possess brutishly-large, flat-cuts where the upper body of the tree was separated from its trunk. Is this an ordinary practice in bonsai? How does the tree survive this process? Further, if the tree does somehow survive, then how does it eventually look when it is turned into a bonsai? Wouldn't the cut cause the tree to become prohibitively hideous over time? I have so many questions about why people do this, and no answers.
If somebody could please explain this all to me, I would be highly appreciative. I am probably just too new to tree-keeping to understand.
These are photos of a live oak, first from a "stump" then 25 years later as a bonsai.
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The top part of the tree CAN be carved, mostly in deciduous trees it is NOT. That's because most deciduous trees are "apically dominant" in their growth pattern. In other words, the top of the tree grows the fastest. That means chop scars, even huge ones can eventually be overgrown with callus tissue produced by the tree. The live oak above had a five inch wide chop scar when I began, that scar has healed over completely and is now mostly indistinguishable from the rest of the trunk.
It can be a sport of sorts trying to spot the chop sites on old bonsai. If you know what you're looking at some are easy.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
This is a pretty good explainer
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://rockymtnbonsai.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/For-Beginners-Trunk-Chopping-101-For-Deciduous-Trees.pdf
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://rockymtnbonsai.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/For-Beginners-Trunk-Chopping-101-For-Deciduous-Trees.pdf
RJG2
Omono
Helped a neighbor with some yard work over the weekend and noticed a Norway maple stump that's been cut down every few years. He said I could help myself to it (provided I fill the hole). It's about a foot tall and at least 3" at the base above the roots. Tempted to collect it now, but maybe better to wait for fall? I'll get some pics.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
If you have good spot with shade, I think you should take it now. Collecting a stump in the fall might make it too weak for wintering. However, don't listen to me. I know nothing about maple!!!!
PonderingSage:
Shohin
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Your perception is correctSerious newbie question here, but what exactly is with this phenomenon of people pulling stumps out of the ground and calling them 'bonsai'? When I think of "yamadori," I think of people going out into the wilderness and collecting either rescue seedlings or interesting tree/ shrub specimens (usually a dwarfish thing with a lot of deadwood-- or a transportable, fully live, and interesting tree.) This can also happen when bonsai professionals do work in peoples' gardens. There's an amount of care that goes into the selection and collection of these trees from the wild.
Yet, I see many trees being posted here which are essentially stumps. They have no foliage, and possess brutishly-large, flat-cuts where the upper body of the tree was separated from its trunk. Is this an ordinary practice in bonsai? How does the tree survive this process? Further, if the tree does somehow survive, then how does it eventually look when it is turned into a bonsai? Wouldn't the cut cause the tree to become prohibitively hideous over time? I have so many questions about why people do this, and no answers.
If somebody could please explain this all to me, I would be highly appreciative. I am probably just too new to tree-keeping to understand.
. Personally believe THIS part is honest connotation of true Yamadori. Not seedling nor stump nor any domesticated yard tree. True paid Yamadori collectors collect/sell whole trees AFAIK. However deciduous trees likely will be out of leaf.
woodkraftbonsai
Yamadori
Here are 2 Ponderosa Pines I collected in April.
This second one - ALL of the roots came up with it and fit into that colander. I got lucky
Both are looking good so far, haven't dropped any needles, and the buds are pushing!
This second one - ALL of the roots came up with it and fit into that colander. I got lucky
Both are looking good so far, haven't dropped any needles, and the buds are pushing!
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