vp999
Masterpiece
Hello guys ! I need some recommendation for fertilizer my wisteria, crape myrtle, azalea, camellia etc.... Would normal fertilizer at Home Depot work or would I need a bonsai specific one ? Thanks.
Need recommendation for flowering bonsai.
- Thread starter vp999
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WNC Bonsai
Masterpiece
Some will say it doesn’t matter and some will say otherwise, I am in the second group. Since wisteria is a nitrogen fixing legume you really don’t need much of it at all and if applied it will just encourage vegetative growth over flowers. Most wisteria growers would recommend a low N fertilizer. For the azaleas an acidic fertilizer like MirAcid is designed. I think camellias may also but am not sure. Also not sure about the crepe myrtles.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Normal fertiliser is fine for bonsai. After all, they are really just trees. None of my bonsai can read so they don't seem to care what fertiliser I give them.
From late summer a specific fert for flowering plants (has lower N and higher K) will help the plants develop flowers for spring. most brands will have a generic 'flowers and fruit' packet which is fine but you can substitute any fert designed for flowering or fruiting plants - citrus, rose, azalea, etc.
As mentioned above azalea and camellia prefer slightly acid conditions so most companies also make a specific azalea fertiliser and I use that on mine.
Wisteria can have any fertiliser. Even though they are legumes they still like to be fed rather than having to whip the rhizobia into action to get N. This wisteria grower has better results when they are fed well.
From late summer a specific fert for flowering plants (has lower N and higher K) will help the plants develop flowers for spring. most brands will have a generic 'flowers and fruit' packet which is fine but you can substitute any fert designed for flowering or fruiting plants - citrus, rose, azalea, etc.
As mentioned above azalea and camellia prefer slightly acid conditions so most companies also make a specific azalea fertiliser and I use that on mine.
Wisteria can have any fertiliser. Even though they are legumes they still like to be fed rather than having to whip the rhizobia into action to get N. This wisteria grower has better results when they are fed well.
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Any fertilizer will do, as Shibui mentioned, "plants can't read", it is only the humans that fret over the numbers on the fertilizer packaging. The plants only take what the need from it anyway, and if your soil is porous enough like it should be in a bonsai pot, most of it ends up on the ground under the bench, where really happy weeds and grass live. Plants don't need fertilizer for food, they make their own food through photosynthesis, the fertilizer that we give them is more like the vitamin supplements that we take.
I use regular miracle grow (or similar, whatever is on sale) about once a month during the growing season along with a handful of osomocoat once a year. Sometimes I splurge and buy plant-tone but will probably stop because it smells terrible. My azaleas, camellias, magnolias, and really, everything grows like crazy.
So, I guess my answer to your question is, "yes", the regular stuff from HD is fine for bonsai.
John
I use regular miracle grow (or similar, whatever is on sale) about once a month during the growing season along with a handful of osomocoat once a year. Sometimes I splurge and buy plant-tone but will probably stop because it smells terrible. My azaleas, camellias, magnolias, and really, everything grows like crazy.
So, I guess my answer to your question is, "yes", the regular stuff from HD is fine for bonsai.
John
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Normally, you will hear me advocate "keeping it simple" and going with the "plants can't read" approach.
Except:
You mention azaleas and camelia. My question to you, are these common landscape plants in your area? If yes, then go with the cheap and simple approach.
If no, this is a sign your local municipal water is high in calcium. The issue is not high pH, the issue is high calcium. Every year your municipality should publish a water quality report. Look it over. If the calcium carbonate level is above 200 mg/liter or 200 ppm, then you are dealing with water that is not ideal for azaleas & camelia. Ignore the pH on the report, all municipal water is buffered to a pH above 8, just to avoid lead poisoning, you don't want to go the route of Flint Michigan. If the report does not report total alkalinity as mg/liter calcium carbonate, look at the total dissolved solids, TDS. If your TDS is less than 200 ppm you have nothing to worry about. IF over 200 ppm, for most of North America, the majority of TDS is from dissolved calcium carbonates. Usually total dissolved calcium carbonates is about 75% of TDS. This does not hold everywhere, but most of the USA it is largely true.
So if you determine you have "medium to hard water" over 200 mg/liter as calcium carbonates, one cure is using a fertilizer that is formulated for high calcium bi-carbonate water (water from limestone aquifer wells). These are also called Acid Fertilizers, one brand is Mira-Acid. I use a formulation designed for blueberries.
A little fertilizer for acid loving plants, used every other watering will help with the high calcium bicarbonate water. Watering with rain water, collected or if you are lucky, naturally occuring rain, is a good. The goal is to get into the range the plants can compensate for. You don't have to get to "perfect", just get to "inside the range" of what the trees can cope with.
Except:
You mention azaleas and camelia. My question to you, are these common landscape plants in your area? If yes, then go with the cheap and simple approach.
If no, this is a sign your local municipal water is high in calcium. The issue is not high pH, the issue is high calcium. Every year your municipality should publish a water quality report. Look it over. If the calcium carbonate level is above 200 mg/liter or 200 ppm, then you are dealing with water that is not ideal for azaleas & camelia. Ignore the pH on the report, all municipal water is buffered to a pH above 8, just to avoid lead poisoning, you don't want to go the route of Flint Michigan. If the report does not report total alkalinity as mg/liter calcium carbonate, look at the total dissolved solids, TDS. If your TDS is less than 200 ppm you have nothing to worry about. IF over 200 ppm, for most of North America, the majority of TDS is from dissolved calcium carbonates. Usually total dissolved calcium carbonates is about 75% of TDS. This does not hold everywhere, but most of the USA it is largely true.
So if you determine you have "medium to hard water" over 200 mg/liter as calcium carbonates, one cure is using a fertilizer that is formulated for high calcium bi-carbonate water (water from limestone aquifer wells). These are also called Acid Fertilizers, one brand is Mira-Acid. I use a formulation designed for blueberries.
A little fertilizer for acid loving plants, used every other watering will help with the high calcium bicarbonate water. Watering with rain water, collected or if you are lucky, naturally occuring rain, is a good. The goal is to get into the range the plants can compensate for. You don't have to get to "perfect", just get to "inside the range" of what the trees can cope with.
erich_raudebaugh
Shohin
Like Leo mentioned, it really helps to check your local water report. Mine is pretty thorough, and the pH is quite high, sometimes over 9. I bought a cheap pH meter, and found that two things work to correct it: either acidify the water itself (pH balance for pools, humic acid, whatever) or use a time release fertilizer for acid loving plants, in tea bags or pellets, or even both. My local water has high calcium plus high pH, so it's not good for most plants.
I tested the water going into the plants after adding diluted acid to the watering can, and the pH after it drains out of the pot to get a pH of around 6 or so.
Almost any fertilizer acidifies the water, organic or not, so small amounts each time help.
I tested the water going into the plants after adding diluted acid to the watering can, and the pH after it drains out of the pot to get a pH of around 6 or so.
Almost any fertilizer acidifies the water, organic or not, so small amounts each time help.
Fertilizering Containerized Plants IV
This topic has proven to be a fairly popular addition to the Container Gardening forum, having reached the maximum number of posts allowed on three previous occasions, so I'll post it for its fourth go-round. Nutrient supplementation has been discussed frequently, but usually in piecemeal...
Please read this in it's entirety!
The guy who typed this is a long time experienced bonsai practitioner. After reading, If you don't have an answer to your question- read it again.
vp999
Masterpiece
Thank you!
Great article. This part really hit home with me: @Cascading-Echinocactus
"There are 6 factors that affect plant growth, vitality and yield; they are: air, water, light, temperature, soil or media and nutrients. Liebig's Law of Limiting Factors states the most deficient factor limits plant growth, and increasing the supply of non-limiting factors will not increase plant growth. Only by increasing most deficient nutrient will the plant growth increase. There is also an optimum combination/ratio of nutrients, and increasing them, individually or in various combinations can lead to toxicities and be as limiting as deficiencies."
"There are 6 factors that affect plant growth, vitality and yield; they are: air, water, light, temperature, soil or media and nutrients. Liebig's Law of Limiting Factors states the most deficient factor limits plant growth, and increasing the supply of non-limiting factors will not increase plant growth. Only by increasing most deficient nutrient will the plant growth increase. There is also an optimum combination/ratio of nutrients, and increasing them, individually or in various combinations can lead to toxicities and be as limiting as deficiencies."
baron
Shohin
Up untill now I've always fed my Satsuki the same fert (organic and chemical) as my other trees.
Although I must admit I use fish emulsion a lot more on azalea.
This year I'll be trying this for the satsuki and camelia. Honestly don't know if it will make a difference, but worth a try?
Although I must admit I use fish emulsion a lot more on azalea.
This year I'll be trying this for the satsuki and camelia. Honestly don't know if it will make a difference, but worth a try?
vp999
Masterpiece
Thank you!
Up untill now I've always fed my Satsuki the same fert (organic and chemical) as my other trees.
Although I must admit I use fish emulsion a lot more on azalea.
This year I'll be trying this for the satsuki and camelia. Honestly don't know if it will make a difference, but worth a try?
I mean no offense, however if you are using a chemical fertilizer with a ratio of elements that closely matches the ratio of elements plants use and applied, in the correct amount, at the rate (frequently) they can use them, there is no need to add anything else to induce blooming or increase growth.
baron
Shohin
No, I'm not adding it, rather replacing as this 'rododendron/hortensia' fertilizer is cheaper then the Hanagokoro/biogold/abrakas pellets
You should try foliage pro 9-3-6. You can get a small bottle off amazon for pretty cheap.
