Does grafting on a collected RMJ add value?

[augustine]

You also have to consider that the foliage will become more dense with good care and (moderate) feeding. Use a little seaweed emulsion and some organic fert now or next season depending on your location. Don't overfeed but pump it up a bit.

 

[Vance Wood]

You also have to consider that the foliage will become more dense with good care and (moderate) feeding. Use a little seaweed emulsion and some organic fert now or next season depending on your location. Don't overfeed but pump it up a bit.

I don't mean to sound rude but you know this how??? Just asking.

 

[Adair M]

You also have to consider that the foliage will become more dense with good care and (moderate) feeding. Use a little seaweed emulsion and some organic fert now or next season depending on your location. Don't overfeed but pump it up a bit.

I agree with Vance. Some will, some won’t. These collected American Junipers vary quite a bit. Even within species. That’s why it is on a tree by tree basis.

 

[Potawatomi13]

To those truly valuing Yamadori will not make more valuable grafting. Personally consider abhorrent to do. Consider native Yamadori of several native Junipers styled by Ryan Neil. Done properly these can all look fine with God given foliage. Is the test of the Bonsai keeper whether can work with what has been given rather than settling for a frankentree.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

To those truly valuing Yamadori will not make more valuable grafting. Personally consider abhorrent to do. Consider native Yamadori of several native Junipers styled by Ryan Neil. Done properly these can all look fine with God given foliage. Is the test of the Bonsai keeper whether can work with what has been given rather than settling for a frankentree.

I liked your characterization of a frankentree. Gave me a good laugh. Also a good halloween costume idea for bonsai maybe...

 

[LanceMac10]

This is the rmj wi the keeper foliage
View attachment 164952

If you don't mind, @Dav4 this old thread has some clear photo's of native foliage, (and the tree itself). Doesn't seem all that lanky, all things considered.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t11292-a-collected-rocky-mountain-juniper

Raise the value? As asked by the OP? If your well-crafted grafts take, well, I ain't giving it to you cheap!!!

 

[Dav4]

If you don't mind, @Dav4 this old thread has some clear photo's of native foliage, (and the tree itself). Doesn't seem all that lanky, all things considered.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t11292-a-collected-rocky-mountain-juniper

Raise the value? As asked by the OP? If your well-crafted grafts take, well, I ain't giving it to you cheap!!!

Yeah, that picture I posted in this thread was pretty poor... photography on the fly for me is rarely a positive.

 

[Vance Wood]

I put myself at a disadvantage in that I refuse to be critical and abusive of another member's tree or trees. @Dave4 there are several things I see that are wrong with this tree but if you are happy with it that's good enough for me, I just don't want to go there with you.

 

[Dav4]

I put myself at a disadvantage in that I refuse to be critical and abusive of another member's tree or trees. @Dave4 there are several things I see that are wrong with this tree but if you are happy with it that's good enough for me, I just don't want to go there with you.

I saw this coming from a mile away. Vance, you and I discussed this at length in the IBC thread Lance posted. Please re-read it so it doesn't get re-hashed here. There's nothing left to discuss other then I've moved this one into an Akadama based soil mix this past spring- it was essentially bare rooted- and haven't done anything to it since other then feed and water it.

 

[Adair M]

To those truly valuing Yamadori will not make more valuable grafting. Personally consider abhorrent to do. Consider native Yamadori of several native Junipers styled by Ryan Neil. Done properly these can all look fine with God given foliage. Is the test of the Bonsai keeper whether can work with what has been given rather than settling for a frankentree.

I take it, then, you disapprove of tattoos!

 

[Vance Wood]

I saw this coming from a mile away. Vance, you and I discussed this at length in the IBC thread Lance posted. Please re-read it so it doesn't get re-hashed here. There's nothing left to discuss other then I've moved this one into an Akadama based soil mix this past spring- it was essentially bare rooted- and haven't done anything to it since other then feed and water it.

That may be so, I don't remember it specifically. Still I regret having responded at all to this thread. It seems that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion without coming away feeling like my presence around here is considered by many to be burdensome.

 

[wireme]

I saw this coming from a mile away. Vance, you and I discussed this at length in the IBC thread Lance posted. Please re-read it so it doesn't get re-hashed here. There's nothing left to discuss other then I've moved this one into an Akadama based soil mix this past spring- it was essentially bare rooted- and haven't done anything to it since other then feed and water it.

Hi Dave. I just read the thread lance linked to and wanted to ask you something. I remember when you got the tree and the discussion about the one sided root system. This is you quoted from the linked thread.

"the root system of the collected tree was entirely one sided, extending almost 2 feet away from the main trunk as one solid 2 inch thick root before dividing"

Anyways I don't recall any details about how you managed to pot it well in the end. Just wondering if that undivided 2" root developed side roots for you to cut back to or if you had to fold that long thick root back to place it at the time of the quote above?

 

[Dav4]

That may be so, I don't remember it specifically. Still I regret having responded at all to this thread. It seems that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion without coming away feeling like my presence around here is considered by many to be burdensome.

Vance, my position on the tree and the way the foliage looks hasn't changed. Given my location and my yard's limited direct sun, health for this one will always be my number one concern. No one else in my club has been able to keep them alive long term, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm ahead of the curve here.

 

[Dav4]

Hi Dave. I just read the thread lance linked to and wanted to ask you something. I remember when you got the tree and the discussion about the one sided root system. This is you quoted from the linked thread.

"the root system of the collected tree was entirely one sided, extending almost 2 feet away from the main trunk as one solid 2 inch thick root before dividing"

Anyways I don't recall any details about how you managed to pot it well in the end. Just wondering if that undivided 2" root developed side roots for you to cut back to or if you had to fold that long thick root back to place it at the time of the quote above?

Luckily, when I removed it from it's original post collection wooden box, enough new roots had grown closer to the deadwood trunk that I was able to cut away much of the old root system and get it into a big mica training pot. It was moved into it's first bonsai pot at the next re-pot and has been in it ever since.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, my position on the tree and the way the foliage looks hasn't changed. Given my location and my yard's limited direct sun, health for this one will always be my number one concern. No one else in my club has been able to keep them alive long term, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm ahead of the curve here.

I believe all you say, I did not mean to say anything that was contrary to your skills and ability.

 

[augustine]

You also have to consider that the foliage will become more dense with good care and (moderate) feeding. Use a little seaweed emulsion and some organic fert now or next season depending on your location. Don't overfeed but pump it up a bit.

Vance wrote: I don't mean to sound rude but you know this how??? Just asking.

+++++++++++++++

Hey Vance - I took delivery of a collected old RMJ on June 3rd this year. The foliage has become noticeably more dense since then. I bought it from Andy Smith for a workshop that he here conducted Oct 7. Andy was the person that made the comment (and he remembered the tree because we had been corresponding about it since last spring). I

I will certainly accept your view that it is on a tree by tree basis but I would expect the foliage on a healthy tree receiving good care to become more dense with good color. I am not referring to texture which I understand, from reading here, is a genetic trait.

Thank you, I appreciate all the information that you give us

 

[chicago1980]

I have also heard that from Bill. Not sure if my sense of smell is tricking me or I have gotten lucky or my trees regularly bathed more, but I have had many RMJs throughout the years and none have smelled bad to me! Go figure.

Mine have slowly improved with cougar piss smell.

We can't graft every tree or we will end up with trees looking significantly the same.

I believe we as hobbyist have and opportunity to learn to control domestic foliage.

Style the tree and see what it looks like with the foliage. If it is not appealing, graft it.

Some folks love the look, feel, and temperament of the Japanese species. There is a bit of truth and bias in the love.

San Jose, Prostata create great trunks, but foliage can be difficult to some. I've debated about a graft to this tree.

 

[chicago1980]

As for the question does graft add value, my opinion is if it is the foliage that people are willing to spend more on.

That is a great tree you bought from Mirai. The kishu would add value IMO.

 

[chicago1980]

Would you rather see a rmj with its original foliage, albeit a little spindly, stay true to its roots or grafted with a Japanese cultivar essentially becoming a hybrid of sorts? Does grafting add value over the original foliage? Seeing kishu on a rmj looks too perfect for me and not natural. I personally like the whimsically look of collected rmj foliage.

It has been suggested that grafting would be the best option with a rmj I just purchased. This would add several years to the project,,, or we could style now and have a legit tree.

I considered this tree, can you point out the live vein? Thanks

 

[Dav4]

I meant to post pics of my RMJ grafting project earlier but just got around to it... long way to go but it’ll be worth it.