Does grafting on a collected RMJ add value?

[wireme]

I like both. I'd like my collection to be made up of both Native Junipers with Native foliage and some with Kishu grafted on. I would imagine that in general, as of today you would earn slightly more money selling a tree with Kishu, Itoigawa or Tosho depending on the character of the trunk. But if you were just going to sell the tree, it's probably not worth the extra time and effort to graft-I could be wrong. For my personal collection, i'm grafting approx half of my trees with a nice quality Kishu because it does better than Itoigawa where I live. I'm currently grafting all my small trees and any trees with other trees with weepy or larger than average foliage for the species. It will be great once we find some native juniper chance seedlings to propagate with high quality foliage for the species. I'd want to graft some of my natives with a better quality native foliage.

I used to occasionally bring home bits of wild RMJ with great foliage with hopes of having good grafting stock someday. I never really tried that hard to keep them alive though. Stuck in pots and hoped for the best. Lots of them stayed green for more than a season but none ever rooted. It would be worthwhile doing it right, there are wild RMJ with really fantastic foliage characteristics out there.

 

[wireme]

I actually LOVE the aroma of my RMJ's, and particular my really big one. It's been to the Asheville show a few times, and remembering how my van smelled during the 4 + hour drive up and back always brings a smile to my face.



... and before @Adair M says it, it has nothing to do with me being a vet.

Yeah, I've spent days wading through the things, always loved the aroma of RMJ. I don't like cat pee smell.

 

[Soldano666]

I want to become proficient at grafting so I can use these native species. Kishu on that would look great. Just as Scots or Mugo would on ponderoso pine and hinoki foliage on eastern white cedar and maybe JWP onto eastern white pine.
There are lots of great trunks to be had out there but on most of the trees I've listed their natural foliage unappealing to me. Too big. Too coarse. Too wispy.
In the end it's your tree. What appeals to you the most should be the deciding factor. Not some guy half a continent away.

This...

 

[milehigh_7]

I miss RMJs... It's funny when you are a kid and they are everywhere you never even look at them... Have not been to Colorado in about 15 years, my dad sold his place... I'm not sure I'll ever experience getting lost in the Junis for hours ever again. I love that smell. That and the "sage" after the rains.

 

[SantaFeBonsai]

I don't know much about the history of this tree other than Ryan received it in bad shape and has nursed it back over the last two years. He says it needs a repot this coming spring.

I can't do this tree justice in terms of styling it to its potential, not enough experience unless someone was watching over every snip and wrap of wire. If I leave it in proper hands I won't see the tree until fall-19 . It'll come back repotted, grafted and styled. I miss it already. Or take it home this Thursday.

This is similar to campaigning birddogs. I tried the pro route, missed my dog so bad I got it back after a few months. That dog and I didn't know squat, except how to hunt birds, then went to Kansas for the national futurity against 70 of the best dogs in the country.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

I don't know much about the history of this tree other than Ryan received it in bad shape and has nursed it back over the last two years. He says it needs a repot this coming spring.

I can't do this tree justice in terms of styling it to its potential, not enough experience unless someone was watching over every snip and wrap of wire. If I leave it in proper hands I won't see the tree until fall-19 . It'll come back repotted, grafted and styled. I miss it already. Or take it home this Thursday.

If you want to style it yourself, I reccomend doing it at a club workshop or something like that if you need a professional supervising to give you confidence. You don't have to do any grafting or styling in the next year, as with the repot I would be content to watch the remaining parts of the tree get bushy the rest of the year. After that is achieved, you will have many styling options. It depends if you would rather pay a lot of money for a professional to make you a nice tree, or if you'd rather learn how to make nice trees yourself. This one would be a great learning experience for any bonsai enthusiast.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here are a couple of RMJ.s in the natural environment. Notice the fullness of the foliage masses. I am not seeing this on RMJ bonsai. More will follow when I find the shots I went looking for.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Value of a tree lies entirely with the observer who would be purchasing it. The seller can choose to accept or reject the offer, but it is only worth what the person who is buying it thinks it is worth.

With that thought, well designed natural foliage is better than poorly grafted 'Kishu' foliage. And vise versa.

Junipers tend to be male flowering or female flowering, especially the USA natives. Females tend to have better foliage. Males tend to be weepy or wispy. The male - female thing is not an absolute, but a general tendency. (In junipers that is)
So if your RMJ tends to flower male cones, you might want to graft better behaved foliage.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

Here are a couple of RMJ.s in the natural environment. Notice the fullness of the foliage masses. I am not seeing this on RMJ bonsai. More will follow when I find the shots I went looking for.

Vance sure the lower branches are full on the tree you posted, but if you look at the apex there is plenty of sparseness to see the branch structure and to see light through the tree. I look forward to seeing your other photos of natural RMJ specimen, but what I'm getting at is it is easy to see what one wants and ignore the features one was not looking to demonstrate. In the end what it comes down to is having lots of observations of the species - where it thrives and struggles in the wild - and deciding where on that sliding scale of that species' range and the scale of fullness one wishes to recreate in our bonsai.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance sure the lower branches are full on the tree you posted, but if you look at the apex there is plenty of sparseness to see the branch structure and to see light through the tree. I look forward to seeing your other photos of natural RMJ specimen, but what I'm getting at is it is easy to see what one wants and ignore the features one was not looking to demonstrate. In the end what it comes down to is having lots of observations of the species - where it thrives and struggles in the wild - and deciding where on that sliding scale of that species' range and the scale of fullness one wishes to recreate in our bonsai.

You're right, in all that you can see. I have some better photos that I am looking for that will prove my point, or at least make my point----if there is one. Let me put it this way. Over the last several years (maybe ten ) since the change in the way people approach Junipers, I have not seen a native Juniper that I would covet for anything but the trunk. These are what I call Kardashian Junipers.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

Looking at these three highly refined native junipers, I can see that they certainly can get to a certain degree of density. If it is the case that they can't go beyond that density to meet your taste as the classic shimpaku junipers can, then I totally understand the choice. But for me personally, the distinction is not great enough (to my taste so far) to motivate me to graft unless an issue of health.

https://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/artisans-cup-winners/
compared to
https://valavanisbonsaiblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/82.jpg?w=660
https://valavanisbonsaiblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/34.jpg?w=660
From Kokufu-ten.

 

[Dav4]

This is the rmj wi the keeper foliage

 

[Vance Wood]

Here are a couple of shots of these trees along the North Rim of the Grand Canyon.

 

[SantaFeBonsai]

those sure are green. The ones I see all seem to have a blue tint.

 

[Ry2Tree2]

those sure are green. The ones I see all seem to have a blue tint.

Through hearsay, I have heard Boon say that Sierra junipers all turn blue "in captivity." In my limited experience with Rocky mountain juniper an western juniper, I have seen about a 50/50 mix of their colors in natute.

 

[Vance Wood]

those sure are green. The ones I see all seem to have a blue tint.

No, they could be Utah Junipers.

 

[JudyB]

I don't know much about the history of this tree other than Ryan received it in bad shape and has nursed it back over the last two years. He says it needs a repot this coming spring.

I can't do this tree justice in terms of styling it to its potential, not enough experience unless someone was watching over every snip and wrap of wire. If I leave it in proper hands I won't see the tree until fall-19 . It'll come back repotted, grafted and styled. I miss it already. Or take it home this Thursday.

This is similar to campaigning birddogs. I tried the pro route, missed my dog so bad I got it back after a few months. That dog and I didn't know squat, except how to hunt birds, then went to Kansas for the national futurity against 70 of the best dogs in the country.

There are lots of pros that you can hire for a day to come to you. For me this is the best money you can spend. A pro, working with you on YOUR trees. Watching demos is not nearly as beneficial to the actual tree that You have.

 

[mattspinniken]

Congrats on your purchase I really like your tree! It's very unique, I was tempted when I saw it for sale as well. For what it's worth I vote for keeping the native foliage. If the native foliage is decent there is something special about the spirit of the tree that is kept when the native is kept. maybe....

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Work with what you have unless it doesn’t tighten or like your climate; you can always graft later, but it will take time.
Fwiw, it has great deadwood, but I would consider tipping it up to the right to show a wider and more stable base:

 

[SantaFeBonsai]

Y'all talked me into keeping it and I love the idea of hiring a pro for a day. Now a 24hr round trip to Cheyenne