Feeling like I am not progressing

[Paradox]

I try to periodically evaluate what Ive learned, where Im at and where I have to go in my bonsai education.

As the title suggests, so far this year I dont feel like Ive gained much more knowledge or understanding.
Part of that is due to the lack of opportunities this year in my club because of a lack of funds to have people do workshops. Part is due to the repetitive nature of these and other forums. There are lots of new ppeople with all the same typical newbie questions and little advanced knowledge for people like myself who are a bit further along. Ive visited a mulitude of bonsai web sites and read and reread. I have 20 to 30 books and Ive read them all at least 10 times each.

Ive been able to keep a few trees alive for 3+ years. I am very comfortable with watering, feeding, overwintering, repotting, and pruning. My wiring isnt terrible but there is always room for improvement which Im working on when I have wiring that needs doing. I dont seem to have too many fungus or pest problems and those I have had Ive been able to take care of.

I cant quit my job and go to Japan for months/years. Going across country to something a like Boons is impossible, I cant afford that. There are no mentors near me I can work with that I know of.

I know I have so much more to learn but where do I go from here? How do I get to that next step? Is it even possible? Do I just stumble along as I am and hope that I learn things as I go?

Need advice.

Thanks

 

[Cadillactaste]

I have heard of videos...DVD's on bonsai. Curious if you could get more from one verses YouTube? Your group might not be able to afford a person...but what of videos?

 

[A Random User]

Just the mere questioning of one's development, means one is progressing...

One does not need classes, seminars, or high paid gurus... to move forward in
bonsai. What one needs is to sit down in front of more trees.

 

[jk_lewis]

It probably depends on how badly you want to improve . . . If it is badly enough, you'll scrimp and save up -- not buying that extra sixpack, or going to that movie, or . . . -- so you can go to Boon's or to Bill V's shindigs up in Rochester.

Which books do you have? You only NEED 4-5, and you need to memorize those.

 

[A Random User]

Side note... I forgot you live in New York ??? Ummm... you just need to get out
some !!! You have all kind of awesome folks up there from which to learn from.
Sorry, I thought you lived in the middle of nowhere, you know somewhere like
Chicago or something !!!

 

[dick benbow]

First and foremost, I can tell you from my own experience, that we often don't give ourselves enough credit for what we've learned.
What has been helpful for me is to get the word out that I love helping newbees and welcome
their contact to learn. Teaching others with what you do know, often reminds you that you have come a long way. Plus now you have made a friend and done something good for the hobby.
If you have a club near by why don't contact some member longer in the hobby and ask for a visit. You'd be amazed at what others can share, and they don't have to be the ryan neil's of the world to be able to do so.
Even sports professionals, after their season, need a little time away from their careers or in your case a passionate hobby. By putting the brain on the back burner, you rest it and make it more passionate to learn. maybe you just need a small break.
Living as close to Bill Valavanis as you do what's the chances of catching one of his shows or just arrainging to visit his facility?

 

[Paradox]

JKL: Name pretty much any book published in the last 20 years, I probably have it and some older.

Sawgrass: Im on Long Island. Rochester (Bill V) is a very long drive (8 hours or so at least), not very easy to get to on a regular basis. I could probably get up there at some point (I hope to get to the national show one of these years). I dont know of anyone on the Island that would be fairly easy to get to regularly but maybe thats not necessary?

 

[Nybonsai12]

It must be the weather because I have been feeling the same way Paradox. Forums, books and clubs can only provide you with so much information. I scoured the nursery last weekend to find sale items just to work on for the sake of working on something and practicing. The DVD's i've heard are very good and worth a look. But after that I'm not sure where to go to improve.

Unfortunately for myself I feel working with a teacher is what would make the most noticeable improvement in the shortest amount of time. I'm exploring this option. For me knowledge and undertsanding is one thing, but implementing it is another. That is where I think a teacher would help most for tips, advice and instruction as I am doing the work/technique etc.

 

[Paradox]

It must be the weather because I have been feeling the same way Paradox.

Lol....you and I are about the same place experience wise so I guess its not surprising.

I scoured the nursery last weekend to find sale items just to work on for the sake of working on something and practicing.

Ive thought of doing the same but I simply cant take on any more trees right now. I have a feeling that Id have to go with something better than nursery stock at this point. I already have enough nursery stock and I have a few pre-bonsai so I dont know what else would help if anything. Almost everything I have has been worked enough this year. Ive got 3 that need some fall work soon and wiring and needle plucking season is starting soon.

Unfortunately for myself I feel working with a teacher is what would make the most noticeable improvement in the shortest amount of time. I'm exploring this option.

Do you have anyone in mind yet? Id be interested to know what you find.

 

[jk_lewis]

JKL: Name pretty much any book published in the last 20 years, I probably have it and some older.

Not impressed. See my last response to the Koreshoff thread.

Sawgrass: Im on Long Island. Rochester (Bill V) is a very long drive (8 hours or so at least), not very easy to get to on a regular basis. I could probably get up there at some point (I hope to get to the national show one of these years). I dont know of anyone on the Island that would be fairly easy to get to regularly but maybe thats not necessary?

You keep saying "easy" -- "not easy to get to . . ." "not very easy" . . . "would be fairly easy to get to regularly" . . .

Getting better at something is NOT "easy." If you insist on easy, you're out of luck. I've been doing bonsai for 40 years now; until last year I was able -- by scrimping and saving -- to get to a show or convention every other year (or so). It wasn't always "easy." Alas, I can no longer do that because of health issues.

Insisting that it be easy is a copout.

But I'm still trying to learn in the time I have left. You can always get more out of a book -- assuming you have chosen the book wisely (back to my comments on the Koreshoff thread). There is at least one magazine in the USA that can help you improve by reading -- and re-reading -- every issue.

 

[coh]

Paradox, I feel sort of the same way after about 4 years. I can wire decently now, but styling eludes me, even after witnessing many demos, workshops, videos, etc. I think the correct answer was given earlier, more time in front of trees. But when I get in front of some of my better but still raw stock, I kind of freeze up, afraid to do something that will set the tree back.

I'm thinking that perhaps obtaining a bunch of cheap nursery stock and styling it, like was done in the recent contest here, might help get the creative juices flowing. But then what to do with those "extra" trees? Perhaps they could be sold someplace like bonsai classifieds.

One other thought came to mind, I don't know what the local club "scene" is like down there, but I do know that Kathy Shaner goes to Long Island regularly (several times a year) to work with some clients in the Rockville Center area (I think). Perhaps one of the clubs could contact her and try to set up a workshop when she is in the area. I don't know if you've ever met her or seen her work but she is very good. And she is from Long Island originally (as am I). By the way, completely understand about the difficulty of getting to Rochester, if you have to drive. Once you get out of the NYC area it's actually a nice drive, but even with good traffic it will take close to 8 hours. Still, if there's any possible way to make it happen, I think you'd find the 2016 National Exhibition to be a great experience.

Good luck!

Chris

 

[steve27]

Keep in mind that you have beed doing this for only a few years not like some of the people on this site or other sites that have been doing Bonsai for 20 or more years.
Think how far you come and how much you have learn from when you first started.
So many times we are told to be patience in Bonsai.
We also must give our trees a run for their money .Like Sawgress said.Work on your trees take chances,and yes we will kill some trees along the way and make mistakes that is part of the process.
I myself have found that I would do alot of reading and web info. but you dont really start to learn untill you do the work to your own trees.

 

[Paradox]

Not impressed. See my last response to the Koreshoff thread.

Not trying to impress you. You asked what books, I answered. There are too many to list.

You keep saying "easy" -- "not easy to get to . . ." "not very easy" . . . "would be fairly easy to get to regularly" . . .

Getting better at something is NOT "easy." If you insist on easy, your out of luck

Easy is a relative term isnt it? What is easy for you might not be for me or vice versa. Spending $3000+ three times a year to get to a Boon's intensive or Ryan Neil's classes is not something I can do no matter how much I scrimp and save.

You can always get more out of a book -- assuming you have chosen the book wisely (back to my comments on the Koreshoff thread). There is at least one magazine in the USA that can help you improve by reading -- and re-reading -- every issue.

I have and do read and re-read multiple times. I do subscribe to ABS and Bonsai International and I read and re-read those as well.
You dont mention which magazine you are referring to. Am I supposed to quess or get it from osmosis?

Your answer seems to be to throw more money at it and your tone is rather condescending if I am not able to do that.

Im asking for constructive advice. Do you have any besides "throw more money at it"?

 

[jeanluc83]

Get yourself out to some workshops.

Nature's Way is hosting Walter Pall again in December. The price for the weekend is about $200. Google has it as a 5 hr. trip for me in eastern CT. I can't imagine it would be too much different for you.

 

[Dav4]

I think you need some inspiration. One of the two best ways, in my opinion to become inspired in this hobby is go see some truly awesome bonsai. LI might not be the mecca of bonsai, but the Northeast and mid Atlantic are chock full of VERY good bonsai nurseries with exceptional collections. I know of 3 awesome nurseries in MA alone and you could make a day trip of it and see all three if you really wanted or spend a laid back weekend and take your time. Members of my club drive from GA EVERY year to visit them. The second way to inspire yourself is to just bite the bullet and acquire stock that blows away anything else in your collection. Owning a 300 hundred year old juniper or an ancient larch from a bog in ME, or maybe a tree that started its training on another continent or was grown out in a nursery can on the West coast since 1975...if that doesn't get your bonsai juices flowing, I don't know what will. You're at a crossroad, Paradox. Most of us have been there. I was a bit luckier then you because I lived in MA when I came to my crossroad. Still, my advice stands. Good luck.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Paradox, I feel sort of the same way after about 4 years. I can wire decently now, but styling eludes me, even after witnessing many demos, workshops, videos, etc. I think the correct answer was given earlier, more time in front of trees. But when I get in front of some of my better but still raw stock, I kind of freeze up, afraid to do something that will set the tree back.

I'm thinking that perhaps obtaining a bunch of cheap nursery stock and styling it, like was done in the recent contest here, might help get the creative juices flowing. But then what to do with those "extra" trees? Perhaps they could be sold someplace like bonsai classifieds.

One other thought came to mind, I don't know what the local club "scene" is like down there, but I do know that Kathy Shaner goes to Long Island regularly (several times a year) to work with some clients in the Rockville Center area (I think). Perhaps one of the clubs could contact her and try to set up a workshop when she is in the area. I don't know if you've ever met her or seen her work but she is very good. And she is from Long Island originally (as am I). By the way, completely understand about the difficulty of getting to Rochester, if you have to drive. Once you get out of the NYC area it's actually a nice drive, but even with good traffic it will take close to 8 hours. Still, if there's any possible way to make it happen, I think you'd find the 2016 National Exhibition to be a great experience.

Good luck!

Chris

Took the words right out of my mouth. Styling is very hard for me too. I think that it will somewhat come with time and experience. I try to work on trees as much as I can but still not go crazy or overboard and have more trees than is reasonable. Would more trees change that? or would I just be spinning my wheels making the same styling/wiring mistakes or things of that nature.

Thats kind of why I feel a teacher would be able to give feedback, instruction and help eliminate doubts I may have in my abilities. I also recall a thread a while back about "Do you need a teacher" and if I'm not mistaken it seems the best trees I see are more often than not from someone who has worked with professionals to some degree. I'm not saying you can't improve without out a teacher as self taught folks have made great trees, it just seems like a logical step in the scheme of things. As for me, I'd love to work with Ryan Neil and attend his three sessions over the course of a year.

Kathy Shaner is doing a demo in November I believe here on Long Island. Paradox, you should attend if she's not doing your club as well. Her demos are top notch.

 

[Paradox]

Get yourself out to some workshops.

Nature's Way is hosting Walter Pall again in December. The price for the weekend is about $200. Google has it as a 5 hr. trip for me in eastern CT. I can't imagine it would be too much different for you.

This is very doable. I will look into this. Thank you.

 

[A Random User]

JKL: Name pretty much any book published in the last 20 years, I probably have it and some older.

Sawgrass: Im on Long Island. Rochester (Bill V) is a very long drive (8 hours or so at least), not very easy to get to on a regular basis. I could probably get up there at some point (I hope to get to the national show one of these years). I dont know of anyone on the Island that would be fairly easy to get to regularly but maybe thats not necessary?

I understand, but as much as I like Bill, he is not the only one doing bonsai in the
Region. When I was up last yr at Saratoga, there were all kinds of folks scattered
All over the region from Rochester to Washington DC who were doing all kinds of
Really awesome stuff.

 

[Paradox]

Kathy Shaner is doing a demo in November I believe here on Long Island. Paradox, you should attend if she's not doing your club as well. Her demos are top notch.

Im aware she is coming and I am mad that I missed her spring trip. November is already on the calender and I plan on going. In fact, next year I will be a formal member of that club because they are able to do more than my current one can.

 

[Vin]

I'm thinking that perhaps obtaining a bunch of cheap nursery stock and styling it, like was done in the recent contest here, might help get the creative juices flowing.

Chris, thanks for saying that! Many on the site seemed to be in a bit of a lull and it seemed the right thing to do. I wonder, are we back to square one again?