Neglected Black Pine Help

WaveMonger

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I had a neglected Japanese black pine transplanted into my yard and I want to transform this tree into a Japanese style garden tree (Niwaki). The tree is quite leggy and I am not sure how to approach my first steps for pruning as I am a total novice. In my online research, I am not finding any videos or tutorials regarding getting a tree like this under control. I am guessing that it needs to be cut back significantly to start and I am looking for some direction as to how I should proceed. Any information someone could impart as to the above would be sincerely appreciated.
 

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I have poured over the Peter Chan videos. Helpful, but not exactly the situation I have with this tree. Having utterly no experience whatsoever, I am fearful of doing anything without some direct input. Anyone?
 
That pine doesn't look too overgrown. You have lots of needles still on most branches so lots of options to cut back.
Work from first principles:
Any side branch can replace a long main branch if you need to shorten any branches or trunk.

Any pine will produce buds from healthy needles so you can cut branches right back to the oldest needles if required to reduce the length of any branches.

JBP needles have a 3 year life span. After 3 years they will turn brown, die and drop leaving that whole section bare. Need to do any reduction pruning before those 3 year needles drop. It is possible for bare sections to produce buds. Even more likely on trees in ground growing strong but better not to tempt fate. Do reduction pruning before the oldest needles drop.

Pines are apical dominant. This means that if lower branches are pruned hard while top is not pruned those lower branches might fail to regenerate. Always prune the top harder than the lower branches.

For niwaki you don't need to be quite as rigorous about reducing branches at whorls but best to try to get back to 1 or 2 branches at each level where possible. This will allow you to develop branch layers instead of entire branch planes right round the trunk. Consider retaining shorter branches and removing longer branches with bare sections when deciding which branches to remove.
 
Shibui, your words are very encouraging, thank you. In addition to select branch removal and pruning of shoots growing in an inappropriate direction, I was wondering about breaking apical dominance to promote full pads,
I have received mixed signals about when is it appropriate to prune this particular tree, let me explain. The tree is newly transplanted to my location and I have been told that I should not prune it at all for at least 1 year. I have also been told that in transplanting, there is root loss and this will cause needles to dry out if I do not prune. In fact, I was told that I have a large margin, somewhere between 10% and 90% with 10% being too little and 90% being too much. Any opinion about the appropriateness of pruning now? I really think if I let it go it will be totally out of control.

I have taken a photo of a 'leggy branch. As you can see it is budding back on the branch. I was thinking that if I take out a lot of the growth on the leading tip of the branch it would shorten the branch add promote growth of the budding further in, eventually giving me a fuller pad. Now, I have to preface all of my 'ideas' with the fact that I have no experience whatsoever and I believe there is a good chance that I am completely off the mark. If the 'idea' about cleaning out leading shoots is correct, would you remove the leader entirely or cut it in half? Would you clean out all but 2 or 3 shoots around the leader? Regarding the Apex or apices at the top of the tree, I would think that pruning them would also promote pad production and arrest the 'lanky' growth of the tree. What would be the correct approach there?

Please forgive my ignorance, indecisiveness and neediness with regard to this project. This is my first foray into 'cloud pruning' a garden tree to mimic Niwaki.
 

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Thank you rollwithak. Currently I am experiencing 'paralysis by analysis'. I am literally terrified to do anything. Hoping someone might take an acute interest, do a facetime with me, and help me muddle through this.
 
Given your new - here are a few things I would suggest.

Plant with the trunk in mind, peter talks about this. After planting fertilize and get the tree to health.

Do not make major structural changes at this time - the tree will be weaker, and you may not have fully had time to consider it in the landscape context.

The tree branches will live as long as there is green to cut back to - the folliage pulls the sap through transpiration.

Take time to consider where you might cut leggy branches to. Your goal with garden style as in bonsai is to build ramification, this is what the pads are. I visit Japan and go to Japanese gardens often - the pads are not "rough shaped" they have a huge number of V shaped forks, just like a bonsai.

Once you have a rough idea and cut back, you will the put it on a schedule for black pine pruning that allows for 2 flushes - thos doubles your bifurcation rate.

The book Niwaki by Jake hobson is great - it has about 5 pages on exactly how to develop a niwaki pine. An important principal is these are developed from the start with design in mind.

Just like bonsai, the trees are grown into shape! They are not created from large trees rough cut into pom poms. It's a process and may be 5 years or so until they start filling in.

Peters videos are good rough ideas, you want to see the trunk, create layers, trim downward growing, clean up needles from between forks.
 
Thank you Applicative! Just to start, I was thinking of cutting out much of last years new growth to break apical dominance and get the branches more full. Of course, don't really know if that is a good idea or bad.
 
If you want it to be taller, I would suggest waiting to do candle development until your ready to get it on a cycle. My opinion is you want it to have energy. I would make sure to get enough sunlight on the inner growth
 
Showing you mine it was purchased far along -- but the principals are the same and it's good study material.

You want V branches, and pads with foliage on top. I would let it rest a bit and make it through a cycle.

It will be good to evaluate how shoots grow etc. Nothing "bad" will happen by doing nothing :)
 
Did some clearing out tonight. Going to do a bit more tomorrow then leave it alone. It has too much real estate in my head. I want to see the trunk from all sides and top to bottom. Hope I don’t kill it but my mind is made up.
 

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Did some clearing out tonight. Going to do a bit more tomorrow then leave it alone. It has too much real estate in my head. I want to see the trunk from all sides and top to bottom. Hope I don’t kill it but my mind is made up.
Looking good! Nice movement and scale. Niwaki is much more forgiving and black pine is a very robust tree.
 
Thank you! I am much happier with it tonight since a did this. Fingers crossed that I don't kill it
 
I have received mixed signals about when is it appropriate to prune this particular tree, let me explain. The tree is newly transplanted to my location and I have been told that I should not prune it at all for at least 1 year. I have also been told that in transplanting, there is root loss and this will cause needles to dry out if I do not prune. In fact, I was told that I have a large margin, somewhere between 10% and 90% with 10% being too little and 90% being too much. Any opinion about the appropriateness of pruning now? I really think if I let it go it will be totally out of control.
It's generally believed that leaving plenty of growth up top will help grow new roots and this is certainly true to certain extent.
I field grow JBP so have transplanted quite a few over many years and discovered:
They can cope with quite severe root reduction without too much set back.
Shortening all branches to 'balance' root loss is a mistake. Loss of all growing tips seems to make it so much harder for the tree to develop new roots.
Usually the tree will 'balance' itself if necessary. Usually shedding excess needles , esp older needles, if there's not enough water or nutrients coming through from the roots. It is not often that a tree will decide to die rather than work through the issue and rebalance itself.
If you are worried about 'balance' remove entire branches you deem redundant rather than shortening many branch tips.


Worrying about the tree dying if you don't prune and also worrying about it getting out of control seems a bit contradictory.
Growth will be slower in the year after transplant so less of a worry just now.
You have until early summer to make decisions. Pruning JBP early just promotes more strong growth so better to defer pruning. Let it go until (your) late summer to see how it copes with the transplant. Be guided by the tree and its growth this spring/ summer.
Your worry about root loss may be misplaced and it grows fine in which case pruning could be done this year.
Your worry about root loss may be appropriate in which case it won't grow much and you should defer pruning until next year. Getting away won't be such a big a problem but a dead tree would be much more severe problem.

I have taken a photo of a 'leggy branch. As you can see it is budding back on the branch. I was thinking that if I take out a lot of the growth on the leading tip of the branch it would shorten the branch add promote growth of the budding further in, eventually giving me a fuller pad.
First, I would not describe the shoots I can see here as back buds. They are all at nodes so are just weaker shoots. back buds are the new buds that emerge from older needles or from bare sections of branch or trunk, usually after the growing tips have been pruned.
Regardless of the terminology, you can always prune back to existing side shoots to reduce vigour and length on pine branches. Right after transplant is not the time I'd do that though. Wait until the tree recovers strength.
 
Did some clearing out tonight. Going to do a bit more tomorrow then leave it alone.
It looks like you have been removing stuff from the inside of the tree. That would be a mistake in my view.
Keeping pine compact is about removing extension, and keeping inner needles (and branches) happy.

But.. Allowing it to settle for a year before major prune-back is not a sign of fear, but rather of wisdom
 
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