Yatsubusa elm from evergreen garden works. Some ideas to consider.

[Hartinez]

This is a bit of a continuation from another thread i started. This one

The roots Had obviously grown very well since this tree was started but so many were thick and lacked the fine roots need for long term development. I was pretty aggressive at repot. Lowered the soil level by about an inch and increased the flare considerably. Surface roots need work though.


My next step is to deal with a cut back and how much i want to cut back to. Some may say to just build branches from what’s existing but there are far too many long straight sections of trunk and i feel the sooner i cut back the better. After hearing from so many from the above thread, i will embrace the lumps and use them to my advantage. Here are the ideas I’m considering.

1. air layer several sections off this tree with the intention of reducing the tree to a single line that is only 5-6” tall, building a new trunk line and eventual side branches. @Shibui and @Bonsai Nut had mentioned that this cultivar does not throw long shoots they way other elms may making it difficult to add considerable girth to the trunk. My thought would be to keep the tree shohim sized, taking advantage of the small leaves. Making a finished tree height of 10-12”. Down side to this idea i suppose, would be the lack of natural form this path would lead me to. Do i want an elm styled as a black pine?



2. Air layer or just chop the trunks just past the straight sections leaving several trunks to build a new tree form. This design would still take advantage of the smaller leaves in making a smaller tree, but would utilize several trunks with branches growing up then out, rather than perpendicular to a single trunk line. Finish height would be 12-14”.




Here is another angle and a pic with out marks if anyone has a suggestion

 

[Shibui]

The only reason for layering would be you have trouble with cuttings. Seiju strike very easy as cuttings. All the branches on this tree would strike easily as cuttings in far less time than layers.

@Shibui and @Bonsai Nut had mentioned that this cultivar does not throw long shoots

I do not remember making such a statement. It is common for seiju to grow long, straight branches. It must be pruned regularly to prevent long straight sections in branching.
They do take a few years to start growing substantially when planted in the ground. Seiju can make a stunning larger bonsai with corky mature bark and fine ramification but allow many years to get there. Smaller leaves suit smaller bonsai and you can arrive there much quicker.
All Chinese elms are prone to develop just a few dominant roots. Regular hard root pruning can produce much better nebari as you have here.

My thought would be to keep the tree shohim sized, taking advantage of the small leaves. Making a finished tree height of 10-12”. Down side to this idea i suppose, would be the lack of natural form this path would lead me to. Do i want an elm styled as a black pine?

I would encourage you to consider the natural form of elms - rising branches with ramification to provide a canopy. This can still be done where the trunk is dominant - informal uprght. Too many elms styled with horizontal branches.
The second option just has the branches thicker and more dominant but still shows the natural rising branching natural for elm species.
Both options should produce good small bonsai.

 

[Hartinez]

I do not remember making such a statement.

Your right, it was more a sentiment you agreed with from Greg about the growth habits. I reread Greg’s post. What he was saying is that the shoots they produce tend to be gangly and don’t do much in the way of trunk thickening. Hence my reasoning for beginning to develop this tree from what I have rather than try and go bigger. Didn’t mean to put words in your mouth.

in terms of cuttings, I’ve read on multiple threads that the time to strike cuttings is early winter? Can they be taken successfully now?

 

[Shibui]

Gangly is a good description of seju growth habit. Growth will aid thickening but it appears to take a few years to kick in with many Chinese elms. They tend to just sit in the grow beds for the first year with little to show but then take off in subsequent years.
Seiju definitely good for smaller bonsai but, as mentioned, if you want to take the time also very impressive larger bonsai.

I take seiju cuttings whenever I need more seiju. Cuttings set a few months ago in late summer are now showing roots ready to pot up here.
Winter cuttings are generally easier for those with limited facilities because humidity is not needed while the cuttings have no leaves and by the time leaves have developed in spring so have roots.
Cuttings with leaves will require extra humidity. Cover pots with plastic bag or cut down soda bottle or place the pots in a clear plastic storage tub to maintain high humidity. Strike rate may be higher if you allow the first spring flush to harden a little.

 

[Hartinez]

Gangly is a good description of seju growth habit. Growth will aid thickening but it appears to take a few years to kick in with many Chinese elms. They tend to just sit in the grow beds for the first year with little to show but then take off in subsequent years.
Seiju definitely good for smaller bonsai but, as mentioned, if you want to take the time also very impressive larger bonsai.

I take seiju cuttings whenever I need more seiju. Cuttings set a few months ago in late summer are now showing roots ready to pot up here.
Winter cuttings are generally easier for those with limited facilities because humidity is not needed while the cuttings have no leaves and by the time leaves have developed in spring so have roots.
Cuttings with leaves will require extra humidity. Cover pots with plastic bag or cut down soda bottle or place the pots in a clear plastic storage tub to maintain high humidity. Strike rate may be higher if you allow the first spring flush to harden a little.

Great info. Thank you.

Im moving again at the end of next year to a house I’m building and plan on putting in a few grow beds. I will probably cultivate this one as a smaller tree and grow out others in the future.

I also have a corticosa from evergreen garden works that I did root work on a few weeks ago. That one I will let grow and will plant in a bed at some point. I want it to get real thick before i start ramifying.


I did take cuttings from this one. The cuttings had buds opening, but nothing in full leaf. I will cover Those with a plastic bag today. Hopefully it hasn’t been too long since striking them.

 

[JonW]

I like both options, but if it were me, I'd go with option 2 because I think you already have a nice, natural form. I might cut the branches a shorter than you indicate in your drawing. You already have great branch placement in that design - the only reason to remove them, in my opinion, is if you want the branches to be thinner in relation to the trunk to accentuate the trunk's thickness.

 

[Hartinez]

Here’s what I’m working with. Hot dam do these things bud along the trunk.trying hard to encourage a few shoots to extend.

 

[Shibui]

Chinese elm have a tendency to grow many shoots from one place. Some of the swollen spots are testament to this happening in the past. Swelling will increase if they are allowed to grow again. I can see some tiny green shoots near the top of the trunk on this one. Rub off any unwanted buds as soon as you see them to discourage further shoots from the swollen spots and others growing from unwanted places.
Be patient. Those shoots you do want will grow well enough in their own time.

 

[ConorDash]

A Chinese Elm of mine, bought 3 -4 years ago, at that point its chop wound was maybe 2-3 years old.
So every single year, even after that 6-7 years since the chop, it budded profusely at that point.. about 4-5-6 buds all around the edges of the point. Had to rub them out each time.

In the end, I decided to let the tree be the tree it wanted, allowed a bud to continue growing and am now turning it in to a second smaller apex.

 

[Hartinez]

Chinese elm have a tendency to grow many shoots from one place. Some of the swollen spots are testament to this happening in the past. Swelling will increase if they are allowed to grow again. I can see some tiny green shoots near the top of the trunk on this one. Rub off any unwanted buds as soon as you see them to discourage further shoots from the swollen spots and others growing from unwanted places.
Be patient. Those shoots you do want will grow well enough in their own time.

If you could see a pic from yesterday morning, you’d see I’ve been rubbing off buds NON STOP. . I knew these things budded all over but dam do they ever! I have left the buds I want and a few others I’m not certain I want or don’t want. I need to do a drawing to try and capture a though I’m looking for.

 

[ConorDash]

If you could see a pic from yesterday morning, you’d see I’ve been rubbing off buds NON STOP. . I knew these things budded all over but dam do they ever! I have left the buds I want and a few others I’m not certain I want or don’t want. I need to do a drawing to try and capture a though I’m looking for.

I know the feeling.. I should have removed these buds but still haven't yet. The tree has so much energy, its not going to bother it that I remove them late.. ill do it tomorrow or weekend.. they are now pretty much fully opened leaves.

DSC_3021 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[Hartinez]

Wired out the new growth that is about hardened off and really taking off. I’m going to allow pretty much everything to extend for most of the season.

 

[BigBen]

...Hot dam do these things bud along the trunk...

Man, I sure am finding that out now too. LOL...
Kinda freaky lookin', but cool. LOL...

 

[Hartinez]

Game plan.

 

[Hartinez]

Left the main leader for the apex to continue to thicken. Contrary to what my original plan was, I cut back the shoots attached to stubs to make sure the branches increase in thickness from the bottom up. I have one more shoot that is slowly extending that will need significant thickening once it real starts going. I have also noticed the back bidding on the trunk really slows once you establish your primary branching. All of the energy seems to be directed where I want it at this point. Very happy with where I’m at with this tree.

 

[VAFisher]

Looking sweet. And certainly a transformation from the tree you started with

 

[VAFisher]

Oh, and love the drawing (plan). Wish I had some artistic ability beyond stick figures ...

 

[Hartinez]

Looking sweet. And certainly a transformation from the tree you started with

Oh, and love the drawing (plan). Wish I had some artistic ability beyond stick figures ...

Thanks Fisher. I’m really liking this one also. Trying hard not to fall into the standard pine style design with this one. I’m wanting all those branches to grow up then out. So far so good.

Honestly also, I’m a decent artist at best when it comes to drawing. But with my IPad i can upload a photo of a tree and do an overlay trace of the bones and texture, then add the details I’d like to see after. Its been a fun way to document a vision.

 

[Hartinez]

These guys are pretty spectacular growers. If you had to pick a front what would you choose?

 

[August44]

First one I think