Wiring damage

[Yannick81]

Hello,

I am new to bonsai. Have tried a couple of things since maybe 4 years and encounter difficulties quite regulary.

I bought an Acer Palmatum at a supermarket last spring and wired all major branches. Unfortunately one thin brannch has not produced any foilage this season and is starting to dry out. The wire was too tight for a period of around 7 months.

My question is if there is a chance it will recover. Seems to me that the tree is producing new bark around the incisions. You can see the branch on my pictures below. Thank you.

 

[Dav4]

Hello,

I am new to bonsai. Have tried a couple of things since maybe 4 years and encounter difficulties quite regulary.

I bought an Acer Palmatum at a supermarket last spring and wired all major branches. Unfortunately one thin brannch has not produced any foilage this season and is starting to dry out. The wire was too tight for a period of around 7 months.

My question is if there is a chance it will recover. Seems to me that the tree is producing new bark around the incisions. You can see the branch on my pictures below. Thank you.

View attachment 594238View attachment 594239

If the buds are still red and plump on the branch in question, there's a chance. Otherwise, the branch is dead. There's no harm waiting until summer before pruning it away.

 

[Yannick81]

Thank you. Then it's dead. The buds were still red a month ago. Now grey.

Is there a way to ensure I can get a new branch at the same trunk level?

 

[Dav4]

Thank you. Then it's dead. The buds were still red a month ago. Now grey.

Is there a way to ensure I can get a new branch at the same trunk level?

The only way to do that is to perform a graft, and I think your tree is too young for that. Let the tree grow and gain strength... that will give you more options for styling

 

[rockm]

FWIW wiring is not a great way to develop deciduous species (until the final stages when twigging on mature branching is done). Pruning is the key to developing deciduous trees. Drastic bending and wiring as you discovered can kill/snap trunks and branches. The core wood on deciduous trees isn’t flexible at least not as flexible as conifers. It simply can’t hold up to drastic bending because it’s brittle. Deciduous species are generally “built” using repeated hard pruning and resulting back buds to extend the design.

 

[Yannick81]

Ok, thanks @rockm

I watched hours and hours on youtube, listening to experts. One I remember claims that for japanese maples it's key to develop Nebari and basic structural branches early on.

2 branches bended quite nicely actually. My mistake was to put the wire on too tightly on the very first branch.

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

This is correct. Building nebari from the first stage of development.
Trunk lines comes together with that. Depending on the thicknes of the trunk at that stage, it can be shaped for future design.

Nebari, trunk thickness and design first. Building the tree with secondary and tertiary branches comes after that

 

[rockm]

Ok, thanks @rockm

I watched hours and hours on youtube, listening to experts. One I remember claims that for japanese maples it's key to develop Nebari and basic structural branches early on.

2 branches bended quite nicely actually. My mistake was to put the wire on too tightly on the very first branch.

Developing the nebari first is Bonsai 101. It is the foundation that sets the tone for the rest of the tree. It is the oldest and most substantial part of the tree as well. A thin nebari suggests a very young tree while a flared nebari with extending network of surface roots suggests age. S

Nebari is best developed in the ground where roots can “run” unconstrained. They push diameter and character into the trunk. In ground development can take a few years or more.

 

[rockm]

Ok, thanks @rockm

I watched hours and hours on youtube, listening to experts. One I remember claims that for japanese maples it's key to develop Nebari and basic structural branches early on.

2 branches bended quite nicely actually. My mistake was to put the wire on too tightly on the very first branch.

What you developed with the bend is called a “rainbow” branch and is frankly to be avoided. It is a curve with no character basically. Wiring tends to do that with seedling sized branches. Deciduous trees have complex curves and angles In their branches in nature. They generally don’t have long gentle curves.

Developing Deciduous Bonsai Branch Structures: Part Two – Bonsai4Me

bonsai4me.com

Developing Deciduous Bonsai Branch Structures: Part 1 – Bonsai4Me

bonsai4me.com

 

[Yannick81]

To be honest I don't like the standard bonsai shape. It doesn't look natural to me. I have never seen this shape in small yamadori trees. That's why I did the rainbow bend just to try something different.

 

[rockm]

To be honest I don't like the standard bonsai shape. It doesn't look natural to me. I have never seen this shape in small yamadori trees. That's why I did the rainbow bend just to try something different.

There is no “standard bonsai shape”. Ya gotta look at quality trees. Alot of the crap online is junk quite frankly

Look through things like this.

Bonsai & Penjing Museum Collections in DC — National Bonsai Foundation

Museum Collections

www.bonsai-nbf.org

If you like the rainbow shape keep doing it. I’m just saying you’re only scratching the surface. Natural looking trees mostly dont do that

 

[Shibui]

Tight wiring rarely kills branches in my experience.
It is important to wire firmly to give the branch support while we bend the branch.
The real problem is leaving the wire on the branch too long. As the branch thickens it grows around the wire and the wire restricts sap flow. The key is to remove wires before they mark the bark. Thinner branches like this usually set and stay in place after just a few weeks so leaving wires on for a full season is just asking for trouble.

I'll also support the idea there is not/should not be a 'standard bonsai shape'. IMHO, Japanese maple bonsai should look like real large Japanese maples rather than those standard mallsai or weeping standards but you are free to make whatever shape you like from your tree.

Is there a way to ensure I can get a new branch at the same trunk level?

I'd start by removing the dead branch. JM often respond to pruning by sprouting new buds around the base of the branch. I'm a little surprised it has not already done so in response to the branch dying. Keeping the apex trimmed will also help promote more buds lower on the trunk.
If nothing appears through the rest of summer you might be able to use the lower shoot to fill the space. If that's not possible grafting is the final solution.

 

[Yannick81]

Thank you @rockm

The trees from your Link are stunning.

So far I am happy with the rainbow shape. The young tree with foilage looks ok right now. I could still modify. The branches are soft.

I got the rainbow idea from birch bonsai trees. Very large birch specimen in my area have cascading branches. Looks very unique for deciduous trees. I thought I could apply this to maples.

 

[Yannick81]

@Shibui Thank you. I appreciate all of your guys help. Was well worth registering with this forum.

It starting budding at the branch base early this season, but it died back, so I guess taking the branch off won't be an issue.

What I meant by standard bonsai shape is the "christmas tree shape". Many pre-bonsai-maples offered in stores have that shape, at least here in Germany. I don't find it particulary interesting.

Anyway, thanks everybody. My question has well been adressed . I am satisfied.

I would like to show you the Nebari and get your feedback on that. Should I start a new thread or can I post it here?

Thanks

 

[Shibui]

I would like to show you the Nebari and get your feedback on that. Should I start a new thread or can I post it here?

I prefer to keep one thread for a tree. Sometimes the previous discussion can have a bearing on the further. It's easier to scroll up than to shift from one thread to another to check what's already been said or shown.

What I meant by standard bonsai shape is the "christmas tree shape". Many pre-bonsai-maples offered in stores have that shape, at least here in Germany. I don't find it particulary interesting.

I am definitely with you on that. Those mass produced trees are referred to as 'Mallsai' because they are not really good bonsai and don't represent real trees IMHO.
For your inspiration, a couple of my Japanese maple bonsai which I like to think have been developed to look like real Japanese maples.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Hello,

I am new to bonsai. Have tried a couple of things since maybe 4 years and encounter difficulties quite regulary.

I bought an Acer Palmatum at a supermarket last spring and wired all major branches. Unfortunately one thin brannch has not produced any foilage this season and is starting to dry out. The wire was too tight for a period of around 7 months.

My question is if there is a chance it will recover. Seems to me that the tree is producing new bark around the incisions. You can see the branch on my pictures below. Thank you.

View attachment 594238View attachment 594239

No big deal. A baby tree such as this could be cut off above the bottom sprouts and become a whole new tree. Develop from what is there and if desired suggest to wire shape into trunk NOW rather than later. Be careful They CAN be somewhat brittle Especially at nodes of branches and trunk or branch nodes.

 

[leatherback]

What I meant by standard bonsai shape is the "christmas tree shape". Many pre-bonsai-maples offered in stores have that shape, at least here in Germany. I don't find it particulary interesting.

Is this what you refer to as christmas tree?

Ahorne

www.bonsai.de

Not trying to be dificult, just really not understanding what you mean, and wondering whether you just misunderstand how bonsai are grown.

 

[dbonsaiw]

What I meant by standard bonsai shape is the "christmas tree shape". Many pre-bonsai-maples offered in stores have that shape, at least here in Germany. I don't find it particulary interesting.

“Pre-bonsai” is a funny term basically meaning anything before the tree is an actual bonsai. Many trees being sold as pre-bonsai are really just mass-produced little trees that are appealing to the masses, but not necessarily what you we are really aiming for. With maple pre-bonsai, I’m generally looking for a tree with the beginnings of nebari (and start to fix it otherwise from the get go) and the lower 1/3 of the trunk which will form the base of the tree, where I will ultimately chop and start to grow again for the next section. Early on, branches are really serving a functional purpose - feeding the tree and helping it put on mass - and then later when the trunk is further along branches will be grown for aesthetic purposes.

 

[penumbra]

JM often respond to pruning by sprouting new buds around the base of the branch. I'm a little surprised it has not already done so in response to the branch dying. Keeping the apex trimmed will also help promote more buds lower on the trunk.
If nothing appears through the rest of summer you might be able to use the lower shoot to fill the space. If that's not possible grafting is the final solution.

Cut the branch back hard. It may encourage back budding on the lower part of the branch. If it doesn't, you have nothing to lose and you can cut it back later.

 

[Yannick81]

@leatherback the low price range shown probably make for a good start. Only thing that stands out is trunk thickness compared to young trees, for my understanding at least. I guess it's really a matter of taste. Some trees look like a christmas tree and I am not looking to grow this shape.

@Shibui epic. Looks very natural. That's what I am looking for

@dbonsaiw yeah, I'm just making up words.