Why you cannot keep bonsai trees indoors

[snowman04]

Ah, the wonders of science...

 

[leatherback]

So interesting to see all the objections against the generic statement that bonsai in general should not been grown inside. Always the same. Some singular examples how a singles survives, or how a specific person manages to keep a range of species indoors (And the invariable technical setups required).

Why are people not willing to accept that growing bonsai requires optimal conditions which are pretty hard to replicate indoors and that outdoors is much better, assuming you grow species local to your climate? None of the tropicals do well over winter when kept inside. Then again, I do not invest in growing chambers, ventilators and grow-light. Just like most beginners who buy a tree to keep on the coffeetable would.

All these objections are just murking the water for people just starting out. That someone who delves into it, can replicate sufficiently similar growing conditions as outside does not mean growing indoors is the recommended route. Actually, it prooves the point that indoor is not great.

 

[rockm]

I have all of my tropicals in my basement and they are doing quite well. I have been doing trunk chops and hard pruning all fall. I also brought in some maple, juniper, azalea, and apple cuttings last week to see if I can get them to root early for next growing season. The boxwoods will live like a houseplant just fine - you just have to water them so I don't see the point when you can leave them outside. My azaleas are outside and while they did ok last winter, I think I will bring them in around Christmas so they dont need to be in the negatives this winter.

If you can keep everything pretty warm, bright and humid, I think most tropicals or evergreens will do quite well. I won't bring my conifers in except maybe some juniper cuttings.

Ive kept all my boxwood outside all year for 30 years. No issues at all. The only one I've killed I kept inside over the winter. Drier inside than a desert, particularly when the winter heat is on.

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

When I think about the trees in nature that we, as scientific artists, are trying to emulate, it strikes me that these naturally hard, gracefully rugged trees have been through some stuff. They've seen storms. They've survived fire. They overcame flood, drought, freeze and famine. Winds have tilted them, causing them to dig deeper into the earth with their roots. They compete for elbow room with their neighbors by growing higher, or denser foliage, or poisoning the nearby soil.
We just cannot reliably, consistently, or practically recreate these conditions all year without ridiculous cost and/or space. Of course we are not building trees that require the same conditions, but it seems to me that many of the growing and styling techniques we use imitate some of these same things that make such noble, strong, beautiful trees that we admire in their natural setting.
And we are using the same species that are in this natural environment, so I agree that it would appear obvious that our trees would require environmental conditions as close as possible to nature...
...which is found...
...in nature.

 

[Attmos]

This is an interesting concept, kinda like saying, "can people survive on McDonald's alone?". So, yes, it is possible, certainly not ideal, but yes, it is possible. I had never considered that light wavelengths would have a different quality, similar to food. I was always of the mind that the plant would adapt their leaves to capture the optimal amount of sunlight, but only in intensity, never in quality. I suppose this is why we would have the red and blue LED lights for plants for the optimal spectrum. I always thought that was marketing.

No, it isn't marketing, it's physics and biology . The angle of sunlight as it passes through our atmosphere affects the color of the light. In the summertime the sunlight in the northern hemisphere is more direct, and has a blue tone. In the fall and winter, the northern hemisphere leans away from the sun, so the sunlight comes through the atmosphere at a different angle, producing more red tones.

In the summertime sunlight has more of a bluish tone and plants do much better with this wavelength. Introducing reddish tones simulates fall and winter sunlight wavelengths, and signals to flowering plants that it's time to drop fruit so the seeds can get ready for springtime...

 

[leatherback]

No, it isn't marketing, it's physics and biology . The angle of sunlight as it passes through our atmosphere affects the color of the light. In the summertime the sunlight in the northern hemisphere is more direct, and has a blue tone. In the fall and winter, the northern hemisphere leans away from the sun, so the sunlight comes through the atmosphere at a different angle, producing more red tones.

In the summertime sunlight has more of a bluish tone and plants do much better with this wavelength. Introducing reddish tones simulates fall and winter sunlight wavelengths, and signals to flowering plants that it's time to drop fruit so the seeds can get ready for springtime...

ehm.. Nah, that is not how it works.
Distribution of absorption of light over the spectrum for different photoactive components in the leaves.

 

[Attmos]

ehm.. Nah, that is not how it works.
Distribution of absorption of light over the spectrum for different photoactive components in the leaves.
View attachment 577114

If you say so.

 

[jillson66]

When I was younger I became interested in bonsai and was gifted juniper bonsai already potted up boxed with tools and care booklet. It stated it was a indoor tree. I followed all the care instructions and it died. This was before the internet was mainstream. It bugged me and kinda turned me off to bonsai. Years later I bought another one and same results I didn't know better. Then I bought one from a bonsai nursery at local fall fest. The instructions said it was a indoor tree and I followed them. Sadly yet another dead tree. Alot of years went buy before I bought anymore from local nursery. These were sold as pre bonsai and guy said keep outside till winter then bring indoors. Well we heated with a woodstove so they didn't make it through winter. I then had internet and some books so I researched and found out I was getting bad info before. Then I realized that there's alot of bad info online also. I finally found this forum. I now have trees that are still living and slowly being developed into bonsai. But I still see it everywhere trees being sold as indoor bonsai even from so called bonsai nurseries.
Thank you for this forum and thanks too all the wonderful people on here that share their knowledge and help and put up with us newbies.

Believe it was Walter Pall who said if you are not killing trees you are not doing bonsai. And if I misquoted Mr Pall please forgive me.

 

[TxRnr]

So interesting to see all the objections against the generic statement that bonsai in general should not been grown inside. Always the same. Some singular examples how a singles survives, or how a specific person manages to keep a range of species indoors (And the invariable technical setups required).

Why are people not willing to accept that growing bonsai requires optimal conditions which are pretty hard to replicate indoors and that outdoors is much better, assuming you grow species local to your climate? None of the tropicals do well over winter when kept inside. Then again, I do not invest in growing chambers, ventilators and grow-light. Just like most beginners who buy a tree to keep on the coffeetable would.

All these objections are just murking the water for people just starting out. That someone who delves into it, can replicate sufficiently similar growing conditions as outside does not mean growing indoors is the recommended route. Actually, it prooves the point that indoor is not great.

I joined this forum just to comment on this topic because of the very, very liberal use of data extrapolation using a single data point (which means the extrapolation is not an extrapolation with only one data point.....it is a guess). I only have 7 or so years with bonsai, but every bonsai I have is healthy (8 and growing...no pun intended). All but one is indoors. Do any of the "hard outsiders" have indoor house plants? Like ponytail palms, traditional majesty palms, succulents, etc. (i.e. plants that are mostly sold for outdoor planting). I have a very large ponytail palm outside (about 11-12 feet tall now) that lived inside for 11 years and grew too big to be inside, so I planted outside. Now I have another sitting right next to me at my desk, and it is growing like crazy. Yes, I know these aren't bonsai trees, but I purchase and care for plants that I will enjoy every day.

Living in South Texas, you don't want to be on your back porch from Easter until fall because it is flaming hot. You can go out after dark, but then you have to battle with the mosquitos. In other words, if all I am doing with a bonsai outdoors is going out to water, fertilize and tend to it for 5 sweaty minutes a day, I don't want it. I want to see it and enjoy it all the time. And that is exactly what I do without going to any extremes (my only set up being a bonsai tree in a pot sitting on some rocks in a tray with regular tap water in it). All of the trees/plants that call for full, direct sunlight are right next to a window. I'm sure some critical spectrum of light that is being filtered by a window is going to kill all living things inside, but the plants and bonsai don't really seem to agree. I'm also sure big solar flares do something to plants too, but who cares. Darwin owns that outcome.

If you live in a more temperate environment and can enjoy an outdoor garden, awesome. I can't and won't and will continue to enjoy my bonsai just as I am doing right now as I write this...indoors. And "beginners" are not one single group of stupid, inept people who put bonsai on coffee tables and believe everything some teenager told them at Lowe's about caring for bonsai. To me, making generalities about "beginners" is no different than making sweeping absolutes that every bonsai HAS to be outdoors, or it will die a horrible, grisly death and be buried as a barren, twisty stick.

"Always the same. Some singular examples how singles survive..." with some marijuana grow set up. It sounds a lot like all of the singular examples of growing a bonsai indoors and it died...which absolutely PROVES that bonsai can't live indoors...nothing about their own "skills" in growing living plants....THEY did everything right, but man, it just died because, well, it was indoors...

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

What an entrance, @TxRnr. I don't entirely agree or disagree with your statement(s). But this seems like a wild way to introduce yourself to the community. If you're able to grow your trees/plants indoors...? Awesome! But starting out like this will not gain any friends. I'll let your further interactions speak for you, rather than this single post. And, perhaps I'm reading a tone that isn't intended, as written sentiment can easily be misunderstood. Welcome to the forum!

 

[Brain Treez]

I joined this forum just to comment on this topic because of the very, very liberal use of data extrapolation using a single data point (which means the extrapolation is not an extrapolation with only one data point.....it is a guess). I only have 7 or so years with bonsai, but every bonsai I have is healthy (8 and growing...no pun intended). All but one is indoors. Do any of the "hard outsiders" have indoor house plants? Like ponytail palms, traditional majesty palms, succulents, etc. (i.e. plants that are mostly sold for outdoor planting). I have a very large ponytail palm outside (about 11-12 feet tall now) that lived inside for 11 years and grew too big to be inside, so I planted outside. Now I have another sitting right next to me at my desk, and it is growing like crazy. Yes, I know these aren't bonsai trees, but I purchase and care for plants that I will enjoy every day.

Living in South Texas, you don't want to be on your back porch from Easter until fall because it is flaming hot. You can go out after dark, but then you have to battle with the mosquitos. In other words, if all I am doing with a bonsai outdoors is going out to water, fertilize and tend to it for 5 sweaty minutes a day, I don't want it. I want to see it and enjoy it all the time. And that is exactly what I do without going to any extremes (my only set up being a bonsai tree in a pot sitting on some rocks in a tray with regular tap water in it). All of the trees/plants that call for full, direct sunlight are right next to a window. I'm sure some critical spectrum of light that is being filtered by a window is going to kill all living things inside, but the plants and bonsai don't really seem to agree. I'm also sure big solar flares do something to plants too, but who cares. Darwin owns that outcome.

If you live in a more temperate environment and can enjoy an outdoor garden, awesome. I can't and won't and will continue to enjoy my bonsai just as I am doing right now as I write this...indoors. And "beginners" are not one single group of stupid, inept people who put bonsai on coffee tables and believe everything some teenager told them at Lowe's about caring for bonsai. To me, making generalities about "beginners" is no different than making sweeping absolutes that every bonsai HAS to be outdoors, or it will die a horrible, grisly death and be buried as a barren, twisty stick.

"Always the same. Some singular examples how singles survive..." with some marijuana grow set up. It sounds a lot like all of the singular examples of growing a bonsai indoors and it died...which absolutely PROVES that bonsai can't live indoors...nothing about their own "skills" in growing living plants....THEY did everything right, but man, it just died because, well, it was indoors...

What species have you been growing indoors?

 

[Sjfrank]

I joined this forum just to comment on this topic because of the very, very liberal use of data extrapolation using a single data point (which means the extrapolation is not an extrapolation with only one data point.....it is a guess). I only have 7 or so years with bonsai, but every bonsai I have is healthy (8 and growing...no pun intended). All but one is indoors. Do any of the "hard outsiders" have indoor house plants? Like ponytail palms, traditional majesty palms, succulents, etc. (i.e. plants that are mostly sold for outdoor planting). I have a very large ponytail palm outside (about 11-12 feet tall now) that lived inside for 11 years and grew too big to be inside, so I planted outside. Now I have another sitting right next to me at my desk, and it is growing like crazy. Yes, I know these aren't bonsai trees, but I purchase and care for plants that I will enjoy every day.

Living in South Texas, you don't want to be on your back porch from Easter until fall because it is flaming hot. You can go out after dark, but then you have to battle with the mosquitos. In other words, if all I am doing with a bonsai outdoors is going out to water, fertilize and tend to it for 5 sweaty minutes a day, I don't want it. I want to see it and enjoy it all the time. And that is exactly what I do without going to any extremes (my only set up being a bonsai tree in a pot sitting on some rocks in a tray with regular tap water in it). All of the trees/plants that call for full, direct sunlight are right next to a window. I'm sure some critical spectrum of light that is being filtered by a window is going to kill all living things inside, but the plants and bonsai don't really seem to agree. I'm also sure big solar flares do something to plants too, but who cares. Darwin owns that outcome.

If you live in a more temperate environment and can enjoy an outdoor garden, awesome. I can't and won't and will continue to enjoy my bonsai just as I am doing right now as I write this...indoors. And "beginners" are not one single group of stupid, inept people who put bonsai on coffee tables and believe everything some teenager told them at Lowe's about caring for bonsai. To me, making generalities about "beginners" is no different than making sweeping absolutes that every bonsai HAS to be outdoors, or it will die a horrible, grisly death and be buried as a barren, twisty stick.

"Always the same. Some singular examples how singles survive..." with some marijuana grow set up. It sounds a lot like all of the singular examples of growing a bonsai indoors and it died...which absolutely PROVES that bonsai can't live indoors...nothing about their own "skills" in growing living plants....THEY did everything right, but man, it just died because, well, it was indoors...

 

[Sjfrank]

It really depends on where you live and what type of tree you are growing. I have a ficus and tea that I know that won't last outside when it's 0 outside.

 

[TxRnr]

What species have you been growing indoors?

3 different Chinese elms, 2 golden gate Ficus trees, 1 olive tree, 1 juniper on a mound (outside now due to small bugs showing up and I didn't want to have insecticide inside with the kids and the dogs; will probably keep that one outdoors for a while), 1 miniature Ginseng Ficus. Oldest is one of the Chinese elms and the newest is the Ginseng.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I joined this forum just to comment on this topic because of the very, very liberal use of data extrapolation using a single data point (which means the extrapolation is not an extrapolation with only one data point.....it is a guess). I only have 7 or so years with bonsai, but every bonsai I have is healthy (8 and growing...no pun intended). All but one is indoors. Do any of the "hard outsiders" have indoor house plants? Like ponytail palms, traditional majesty palms, succulents, etc. (i.e. plants that are mostly sold for outdoor planting). I have a very large ponytail palm outside (about 11-12 feet tall now) that lived inside for 11 years and grew too big to be inside, so I planted outside. Now I have another sitting right next to me at my desk, and it is growing like crazy. Yes, I know these aren't bonsai trees, but I purchase and care for plants that I will enjoy every day.

Living in South Texas, you don't want to be on your back porch from Easter until fall because it is flaming hot. You can go out after dark, but then you have to battle with the mosquitos. In other words, if all I am doing with a bonsai outdoors is going out to water, fertilize and tend to it for 5 sweaty minutes a day, I don't want it. I want to see it and enjoy it all the time. And that is exactly what I do without going to any extremes (my only set up being a bonsai tree in a pot sitting on some rocks in a tray with regular tap water in it). All of the trees/plants that call for full, direct sunlight are right next to a window. I'm sure some critical spectrum of light that is being filtered by a window is going to kill all living things inside, but the plants and bonsai don't really seem to agree. I'm also sure big solar flares do something to plants too, but who cares. Darwin owns that outcome.

If you live in a more temperate environment and can enjoy an outdoor garden, awesome. I can't and won't and will continue to enjoy my bonsai just as I am doing right now as I write this...indoors. And "beginners" are not one single group of stupid, inept people who put bonsai on coffee tables and believe everything some teenager told them at Lowe's about caring for bonsai. To me, making generalities about "beginners" is no different than making sweeping absolutes that every bonsai HAS to be outdoors, or it will die a horrible, grisly death and be buried as a barren, twisty stick.

"Always the same. Some singular examples how singles survive..." with some marijuana grow set up. It sounds a lot like all of the singular examples of growing a bonsai indoors and it died...which absolutely PROVES that bonsai can't live indoors...nothing about their own "skills" in growing living plants....THEY did everything right, but man, it just died because, well, it was indoors...

The bottom line/best advice is do what works best. Many of us just don't know what that is and look to the forum for advice on what works for others in similar climates/similar trees/similar goals etc. I am of the school of thought that trees do best outdoors provided that the climate is right for the particular tree. I have mostly temperate trees that need the dormancy, so the vast majority of my trees stay outdoors all year long and are happy here in 7b. I do have a few ports and vachelia cavens that come indoors for a chunk of the year. They are kept in a grow tent, with sufficient lighting and ventilation. It's going to be very difficult to keep temperate trees indoors and the notion that bonsai trees are to be kept on a desk indoors without any attempt to deal with lighting/ventilation issues will lead to big problems. But if what you are doing is working, keep doing that.

 

[leatherback]

Considering my post was quoted I suppose a response from my side is asked for..

Me, I have been growing pretty much everything I have gotten my hands on for as long as I can remember, so probablty over 45 years. Right now, my living room has about 30 pots with plants including some of my tropical bonsai.

All but one is indoors. Do any of the "hard outsiders" have indoor house plants? Like ponytail palms, traditional majesty palms, succulents, etc. (i.e. plants that are mostly sold for outdoor planting). I have a very large ponytail palm outside (about 11-12 feet tall now) that lived inside for 11 years and grew too big to be inside, so I planted outside. Now I have another sitting right next to me at my desk, and it is growing like crazy. Yes, I know these aren't bonsai trees, but I purchase and care for plants that I will enjoy every day.

So you are not growing any bonsai but just houseplants.

Bonsai require more than just stay alive and grow. But if you do not grow bonsai you have no idea what the difference is. Can't blame you for this.

 

[TxRnr]

What an entrance, @TxRnr. I don't entirely agree or disagree with your statement(s). But this seems like a wild way to introduce yourself to the community. If you're able to grow your trees/plants indoors...? Awesome! But starting out like this will not gain any friends. I'll let your further interactions speak for you, rather than this single post. And, perhaps I'm reading a tone that isn't intended, as written sentiment can easily be misunderstood. Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for the welcome

The bottom line/best advice is do what works best. Many of us just don't know what that is and look to the forum for advice on what works for others in similar climates/similar trees/similar goals etc. I am of the school of thought that trees do best outdoors provided that the climate is right for the particular tree. I have mostly temperate trees that need the dormancy, so the vast majority of my trees stay outdoors all year long and are happy here in 7b. I do have a few ports and vachelia cavens that come indoors for a chunk of the year. They are kept in a grow tent, with sufficient lighting and ventilation. It's going to be very difficult to keep temperate trees indoors and the notion that bonsai trees are to be kept on a desk indoors without any attempt to deal with lighting/ventilation issues will lead to big problems. But if what you are doing is working, keep doing that.

I didn't say that I kept a bonsai on a desk without any attempt at lighting or ventilation. I said that I have another ponytail palm next to my desk (which is directly next to an always open window with two other large windows in the office). I can see where you might think I was talking about a bonsai ponytail, but this is just a ponytail palm.

Considering my post was quoted I suppose a response from my side is asked for..

Me, I have been growing pretty much everything I have gotten my hands on for as long as I can remember, so probablty over 45 years. Right now, my living room has about 30 pots with plants including some of my tropical bonsai.

So you are not growing any bonsai but just houseplants.

Bonsai require more than just stay alive and grow. But if you do not grow bonsai you have no idea what the difference is. Can't blame you for this.

No, I am growing both, as I said in my post in the second sentence. To say I'm not growing bonsai, just house plants is great! I guess you are just growing bonsai and nothing else. I've been growing things for about the same amount of time, including a 500-tree apple orchard at our family ranch that my brother and I planted when I was 13 years old (it took about 2 months to get them all in), and it is still going strong. We have 3 additional orchards now, all of which I planted with other family members and continue to care for. We also have cattle on the ranch and I run that operation. I've been around nature and growing my entire life. I got into bonsai about 7 or so years ago and have enjoyed them immensely. I certainly don't have 30 bonsai for sure, nor will I ever. Too many other things to do, but to have that many is quite a feat.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I didn't say that I kept a bonsai on a desk without any attempt at lighting or ventilation. I said that I have another ponytail palm next to my desk (which is directly next to an always open window with two other large windows in the office). I can see where you might think I was talking about a bonsai ponytail, but this is just a ponytail palm.

Wasn't implying that is what you do, just that some do it and have trouble growing bonsai.

 

[leatherback]

I certainly don't have 30 bonsai for sure, nor will I ever. Too many other things to do, but to have that many is quite a feat.

lol. I have 250 bonsai. Inside I have a few overwintering.
Most of the plants in the living room are not bonsai. Just plants.

Please show your bonsai that you have grown indoors for 7 years.

 

[snowman04]

What an entrance, @TxRnr. I don't entirely agree or disagree with your statement(s). But this seems like a wild way to introduce yourself to the community. If you're able to grow your trees/plants indoors...? Awesome! But starting out like this will not gain any friends. I'll let your further interactions speak for you, rather than this single post. And, perhaps I'm reading a tone that isn't intended, as written sentiment can easily be misunderstood. Welcome to the forum!

Lest we not judge him by a single datapoint...