When should inexperienced bonsai growers shut up and let the experts talk?

[Gabler]

I've been doing bonsai seriously since just prior to COVID, so I consider myself more or less one of the pandemic-era newcomers to the practice. That means I have a few years of experience, which is something, but it's certainly not a lot of experience, especially considering the long timespan it takes to develop and refine a tree.

This website has been a tremendous resource, and I enjoy participating in discussion. I like to help contribute here as a resource myself, at least to the extent I'm able to answer all the basic questions that brand new members tend to ask.

That said, I'm also wary of offering bad advice because of my relative lack of experience. To avoid spreading misinformation, I try to post only information of which I have first-hand, hands-on experience. To the extent that I know things from books and other hearsay sources, I try to avoid commenting, and when I do, I try to make it clear that it's second-hand information.

Nonetheless, even to the extent that I have first-hand experience with certain things, it's possible to be mistaken about what I've seen.

All of that is to ask, do you have any suggestions for a rule of thumb to ascertain when it's time to shut up and wait for an expert to chime in?

 

[AshleyMammal]

As a newbie myself of about 4 years serious (not counting few years previous to that with “indoor” -bah- Chinese elms), I try to ascertain the level of knowledge/experience of the person asking the question and offer basic advice in the hope that I save the time of a more knowledgeable expert.

I essentially look at this forum like a knowledge food chain, if I feed the newbies, maybe the experts will feed me!

I cannot convey how much I am seriously addicted to the hobby and this forum, gone from keeping 2 Chinese elms inside to having circa 100 trees (very young raw material included) in a tiny garden. Thank you to anyone who has interacted with me on here!

 

[pandacular]

well said Ashley.

I cannot convey how much I am seriously addicted to the hobby and this forum

myself as well, though I'm a few years behind.

I tend to wait and see what others have to say, and if a beginner question goes unanswered for a few hours, I'll chime in. My goal is less to give an answer and more to give encouragement and make folks feel welcome. A lot of beginners get a bad start in bonsai--mallsai, bad advice, or just trying to grow from seed too early--and I've seen multiple people quit because of that.

I could do a better job at answering fewer questions that are above my level (just look at my post count!) and being aware of my blindspots. There are some topics I won't touch, particularly soil.

 

[BrianBay9]

When I started here is used to throw in my opinion on almost anything, often without much experience. Somewhere in my journey I made a conscious decision to avoid commenting unless I have direct experience on the subject at hand. That reduced my contributions, but hopefully made them more useful.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I'm not designed to give critiques on design. I either like something or I don't.
That's when I let the others do the talking.

But I can't shut up, so I try to transfer the idea of how to approach, instead of making the choices.

When it comes to plant health, I want what's best for everyone and I'm happy to start an argument.

It depends on what the experts are experts at, I guess.

 

[crab apple]

It's good to get a response back, even if the response comes from someone with not much more experience than the poster. At the very least it keeps the thread alive till maybe someone with more knowledge may weigh in. A lot of posts go unanswered, nobody likes that.

 

[Cajunrider]

All of that is to ask, do you have any suggestions for a rule of thumb to ascertain when it's time to shut up and wait for an expert to chime in?

For me it is mostly by feel. I usually shut up when I feel the thread has taken a serious tone where hard facts are needed for some members to make hard decisions and I am not sure about the issue. In this case, if I am not certain that I can reliably do what I say I will shut up and wait for experts to speak.

 

[pandacular]

A lot of posts go unanswered, nobody likes that.

yep, i'll often check the unanswered threads page for stuff that can be revived, particularly for beginner questions...or the dreaded "can i grow this inside?"

 

[Wulfskaar]

I am in the same boat. I've only given advice when I've seen something written many times by more experienced people, or when I have direct experience with it. Having now read A LOT of information, experiences, guides, and gained knowledge over the last 3 years, I realize that I know only enough to be dangerous.

Even with highly experienced bonsai people, I've received or read contrasting advice.

I think we just have to do our best to find answers and make decisions on our own, whether right or wrong, and learn from our mistakes as well as our successes.

We also have to be very wary of the advice we give, as one wrong move can cost the life of a tree or more.

Some words of wisdom....

The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.
-Soctrates

 

[snowman04]

Being new to this forum (but a veteran of life) I like to compliment when I like something and wait to respond if I'm not sure. Mom always told me you have two ears and one mouth. Listen and observe twice as much as you speak. It's helped me grow... Kinda like a really nice tree...

 

[GGB]

Anthony used to say that he wouldn't talk bonsai with anyone who had less than ten years of experience. But now that I'm reaching that threshold, I'm realizing how arbitrary (and round) the number ten is haha. Miss Anthony though, he was unique.

 

[0soyoung]

What is an 'expert'?
How do you know that you aren't one already?

 

[trigo]

This is a public forum, so anyone can chime in on any thread... I don't get why people get mad if someone goes to a thread and say something against their opinion or criticize them, if you don't like or doesn't agree with something someone says, just ignore it .

Anyone that's reading a thread, should compare all the responses and get their own conclusions, based on whatever they believe is right. From moonphases, to cientific research, anecdotes and true experience, there is a vast amount of knowledge on this forum and people should filter what they believe is usefull, being able to learn something in the process.

 

[snowman04]

All well said. Free advice is just that, "free"...

 

[Bonsai Nut]

When I lived in Chicago, a group of pretty impressive bonsai enthusiasts used to pay to bring in a bonsai pro from Japan every year to work on their trees (privately). This would have been in '94 or '95. I had the fortunate opportunity one day to "assist" the bonsai master as he was working on the trees of one of my mentors. What I didn't know was that my mentor wasn't going to be there - it was just me and this Japanese master. I remember it clearly, because as we started to work, I asked him a lot of questions. Finally (because he was probably fed up with my chatter) he said "in Japan assistants don't ask questions. They watch and they learn!"

I was initially stunned, and then embarassed. I was about 30 at the time. I zipped my lip, and the next 45 minutes were spent in total silence. And then, as we continued to work together, about every five minutes he would say something. "When you do this, make sure you do that" or "you see this branch - it is no good because of this... remove it". It is amazing how much you learn when you learn to listen.

 

[badatusernames]

From what I’ve heard there used to be a lot more high-level people here. Maybe we branch covidians scared em off. I’ve always treated this as crowdsourced info so will parrot what I’ve read in books or on video streams for folks who haven’t read/seen them. Showing off my fumbling was kind of the point of my ‘garden’ thread, so I’m glad for the “what did you do today” thread.

Also, don’t let your doctor give you 900mg gabapentin every day. That may have contributed as well.

 

[MichaelS]

''When should inexperienced bonsai growers shut up and let the experts talk?''​

All the time....... But seriously, you should never ''shut up'' and as long as you ask questions and consider the answers you are doing the right thing.

 

[Cajunrider]

What is an 'expert'?
How do you know that you aren't one already?

Well I used to be pert. Now I am just old.

 

[BrianBay9]

Well I used to be pert. Now I am just old.

So you are indeed an ex pert

 

[Carol 83]

Just in the time that I have been here, it seems like more and more of the experienced people/experts have left the forum or only visit sporadically. Even so, I am SO thankful for all of the advice and information that I have received here. I am also thankful for those more learned individuals that have stayed to guide us less experienced. I try and only comment on things I have experienced and what has worked or not worked for me.