When are crossing branches allowed?

[ElyDave]

honestly from getting to know these guys, they mean well. Just take them as suggestions from people with experience, and make your own choices with that in mind.

Direct communication is underrated these days. Don't take offense, think about it, and then make your best choice according to your own future view for the tree. People come to this forum to get clear opinions as to what to do with their trees, and I think that the opinions were positive in terms of their intent.

I don't know why you are making an excuse for this, you would not talk to people like this face to face, so why do suggest that it's acceptable online? If these people are holding themselves up as a community that is coaching others they are going about it the wrong way. I've spent 20 years coaching others, and the most interesting questions by far are the ones that make me say "I don't know, let's try and work it out". These people seem to have zero interest in any experience other than their own, and seem to be able to judge another's capability from zero information, and without asking a single question. That's not coaching.

 

[BobbyLane]

If I was in your garden chatting to you about your trees, I would still tell you, look mate some of these branches are too long and need cutting back, because they have no taper and look out of proportion.
I mentioned looking at some good prunus bonsai, to get futher ideas, and seeing what really good ones look like. You could only come up with your own, which in my honest opinion are not great examples of prunus bonsai, I just explained why they need a bit of work. Which you seem to have a problem with, so yes, I assume you have your own way of doing things, which you believe is good enough, so again carry on and leave me out of your discussion.

 

[Paradox]

I don't know why you are making an excuse for this, you would not talk to people like this face to face, so why do suggest that it's acceptable online? If these people are holding themselves up as a community that is coaching others they are going about it the wrong way. I've spent 20 years coaching others, and the most interesting questions by far are the ones that make me say "I don't know, let's try and work it out". These people seem to have zero interest in any experience other than their own, and seem to be able to judge another's capability from zero information, and without asking a single question. That's not coaching.

I've read through the thread twice to try and figure out where the offense to you came from.

Your comments suggested you were thinking this tree would make a good windswept design. Several people discouraged that because to making a convincing windswept is very difficult and has hardly ever been successful among the many that have been attempted here and elsewhere. They see a better path for this tree that would result in a better tree.

If that's not good coaching, I don know what is. Encouraging someone to take a path that will work towards the best outcome is good coaching.

Good coaching isn't patting someone on the back, giving them an "atta boy" and encouraging them down a path that will end in mediocre results.

Few of us here will not sugar coat things and will tell it how we see it so sometimes you need to have a thick skin.

I also agree with the comments about looking at well developed (ie good) trees. In this case, the suggestion was meant to find pictures of trees made by well known bonsai artists or ones on exhibit at arboretum and the like. Look beyond your bench and expand your horizons.

Lastly, this looks like a fun and interesting project. Good luck with it.

 

[Baku1875]

I don't know why you are making an excuse for this, you would not talk to people like this face to face, so why do suggest that it's acceptable online? If these people are holding themselves up as a community that is coaching others they are going about it the wrong way. I've spent 20 years coaching others, and the most interesting questions by far are the ones that make me say "I don't know, let's try and work it out". These people seem to have zero interest in any experience other than their own, and seem to be able to judge another's capability from zero information, and without asking a single question. That's not coaching.

The suggestions from people in this thread imply that this particular tree would be 'better' suited to something other than windswept. It's a design suggestion, and by no means is it an implication that 'you dont know what you are doing'. Your trees indicate that you do know what you are doing and can style and take care of trees effectively.

Another way of viewing the advice that was presented in this thread would be- "it would take less time and effort in development, and you would achieve a greater *wow* factor for the average viewer in fewer years if you considered something other than windswept for that particular tree".

It has nothing to do with your skills or capabilities, it has to do with the tree's current strengths and weaknesses and the path of least resistance that you can take to make the tree truly impressive to both an experienced practitioner or a non bonsai artist..

Personally, I am a novice, and I agree that there is no harm in proceeding with your plan other than the opportunity cost of having done something different if you go ahead and try to make it windswept vs something else, and you will probably learn a lot along the way. And the added bonus of proving someone wrong when it does in fact become a really interesting windswept design, perhaps? No harm done, bonsai is an art and we all take our own road to put our stamp on our trees.

I have had my fair share of 'internet arguments' over the years (im in my mid 30s, and grew up with the early internet and chat rooms, forums).
My objective with the internet today is to obtain knowledge, discuss, and exchange opinions and suggestions while trying to avoid being offended or making offenses to others. I want to keep conversations going and have valuable exchanges of opinions based on each other's experiences and knowledge.

We're fortunate enough to have a very active community of people who love designing and developing potted trees, and some very highly experienced practitioners (even Walter Pall is on here and makes posts time to time!)

What sucks about getting offended on the basis of a misunderstanding is that it ends the conversation. Keep sharing your trees and keep an open mind, opinions and suggestions are simply that- opinions and suggestions

 

[rockm]

Windwept is not easy to do, therefore don't even try. Your presupposition of the outcome is pretty closed-minded.

So how do you propose people learn how to do hard things?

Windswept is hard to do. It's even harder when you're forcing it on material that doesn't have many attributes to do it with. Not saying don't try things, in fact, quite the opposite. I'm saying learn to understand what a tree offers, instead of forcing a design on it that it doesn't want to do. Closed minded is deciding on a design and digging in your heels instead of considering more viable options with a piece of decent material.

 

[rockm]

I don't know why you are making an excuse for this, you would not talk to people like this face to face, so why do suggest that it's acceptable online? If these people are holding themselves up as a community that is coaching others they are going about it the wrong way. I've spent 20 years coaching others, and the most interesting questions by far are the ones that make me say "I don't know, let's try and work it out". These people seem to have zero interest in any experience other than their own, and seem to be able to judge another's capability from zero information, and without asking a single question. That's not coaching.

FWIW, if I had a coach who professed to having an open mind and asked for input, then gets all huffy and belligerent when presented with it, I'd find another sport. I don't have zero interest in solutions other than my own. I have repeatedly taken trees to people who have a different perspective on how to proceed. I've redesigned trees using that input.

I merely suggested that you're not really seeing what the tree has to offer, and instead bulling your way ahead, rationalizing your original plan.