What the demos don't tell you.

[MichaelS]

Just how much work does it take to continue to develop a multi branched tree which just about finished high school?
There so many little jobs you have to repeat every year. It's all the boring and tedious jobs (where is Adiar? he loves doing this stuff) of development they often never mention at demonstrations. It might be interesting for the first hour or two but after that it's just plain work.
Here's an example of a tree requiring such work.

A root connected juniper.



The jobs include removing last year's wire, pulling all the old brown needles with tweezers one by one. (sometimes you get lucky and grab 2 or 3 at once), pruning the shoots to shorten them as much as possible. (Usually you need to do all of them), re-wiring each twig, and positioning.
Not to mention all the unforseen jobs that spring up.




Old needles, branches which have died back all need to be cleaned up thoroughly.






After 30 mins, the smallest easiest trunk is unwired, cleaned and re-wired.
And it doesn't even have that many branches on it. Next year it will probably take closer to one hour to complete.





After a while trunks can drift and move. At least the main trunk here needs to be straight and upright. With a normal forest it's simply a matter of propping it up at the roots but since these are all connected, it will need to be pulled. Also it has a bow so it will need to go right at the base and then left at the top.






In this case there is nothing to attach the guy wire to so I have hooked and run a heavy wire all the way from the middle drainage hole up the right side of the pot.






The main trunk pulled to the right....

 

[MichaelS]

I can't place the other guy wire to the top of the main trunk until I clean. prune and wire all it's branches first. If you've ever tried wiring an branch with a guy wire in the way you'll know what I mean!
So,....after 4 hours what have I done? Not much. One little trunk finished (?) and two branches on the main trunk. About 45 branches to go.........

 

[Paradox]

Yep, Thats why myself and a few others are trying to form a study group because we have seen a lot of demos.
We want to know what we are supposed to do after that to keep the development of the tree moving forward.

 

[Adair M]

Just how much work does it take to continue to develop a multi branched tree which just about finished high school?
There so many little jobs you have to repeat every year. It's all the boring and tedious jobs (where is Adiar? he loves doing this stuff) of development they often never mention at demonstrations. It might be interesting for the first hour or two but after that it's just plain work.
Here's an example of a tree requiring such work.

A root connected juniper.

View attachment 144159

The jobs include removing last year's wire, pulling all the old brown needles with tweezers one by one. (sometimes you get lucky and grab 2 or 3 at once), pruning the shoots to shorten them as much as possible. (Usually you need to do all of them), re-wiring each twig, and positioning.
Not to mention all the unforseen jobs that spring up.




Old needles, branches which have died back all need to be cleaned up thoroughly.

View attachment 144160




After 30 mins, the smallest easiest trunk is unwired, cleaned and re-wired.
And it doesn't even have that many branches on it. Next year it will probably take closer to one hour to complete.

View attachment 144161



After a while trunks can drift and move. At least the main trunk here needs to be straight and upright. With a normal forest it's simply a matter of propping it up at the roots but since these are all connected, it will need to be pulled. Also it has a bow so it will need to go right at the base and then left at the top.

View attachment 144162




In this case there is nothing to attach the guy wire to so I have hooked and run a heavy wire all the way from the middle drainage hole up the right side of the pot.

View attachment 144163




The main trunk pulled to the right....

View attachment 144165

You're right! It is tedious. But not boring. But, if you find your mind wandering, set the tweezers down, go do something else, then come back to it.

By the way, your wiring? Where you wire two branches coming off the trunk with one wire? You should wire so that the wire come up from under the branch, not from above it. Like this:



See Fig. 4

 

[MichaelS]

You're right! It is tedious. But not boring. But, if you find your mind wandering, set the tweezers down, go do something else, then come back to it.

By the way, your wiring? Where you wire two branches coming off the trunk with one wire? You should wire so that the wire come up from under the branch, not from above it. Like this:

View attachment 144167

See Fig. 4

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but if you mean I should have wired as in fig 4, that is incorrect. I'm trying to lower not raise the branches. You should know that Adiar!
Fig 4 would be correct if you were bringing branches forward on a branch or upward on the trunk.
It would also be ok to do that if your branches were already fixed as it would if you wired from the top,

 

[MichaelS]

So anyway, 3 hours later the main trunk of the group cleaned unwired and rewired. I have brought it up temporarily just to have a look.
Seems like that second guy wire will have to wait until I finish trunk number 2.
The gap in the trunk #1 will be filled by branches from trunk #2.

 

[ralf]

Mike, thank you for taking the time to document your work. It is quite useful for me to see the phased process. It takes a lot of imagination to make the styling of the forrest/ multitrunk correctly I assume.

I have a question regarding the shape of the two trees you have wired. Both have a fairly straight trunk with a sort of a pig's tail on the top of it - I mean the curved top. I know it is something I can find on trees that have grown over the " surface" of the forest and it is the wind that causes such movements I believe. So for the main trunk I can understand the top movement. For the smallest tree I would expect as straight trunk as possible. What is your oppinion - rationale behind your styling of this tree?

 

[just.wing.it]

You're right! It is tedious. But not boring. But, if you find your mind wandering, set the tweezers down, go do something else, then come back to it.

By the way, your wiring? Where you wire two branches coming off the trunk with one wire? You should wire so that the wire come up from under the branch, not from above it. Like this:

View attachment 144167

See Fig. 4

How is figure 3 so different from figure 7?
Looks basically identical.... the anchor point, or lack thereof, doesn't completely wrap around a branch before going on to the 2 branches....

 

[Dav4]

Actually, Adair's correct about the position of the wire being less effective coming from above... nit picky but correct.

 

[sorce]

Actually, Adair's correct about the position of the wire being less effective coming from above... nit picky but correct.

Delete!

Seriously.....

Wiring a Single branch as in figure 5 would be less Effective then too?

I have run into this scenario.....
(MichaelS ~ Sorce)

This diagram is for anchor points....
It doesn't delve into other...IM(nsob)O.

Wether bending up or down....
Makes sense.
We know to support the outside of The bend.

If the wire Is in the way.....its In the Way!

No one listens to This Hack anyway!


Sorce

 

[sorce]

Of course....
DBD4 is always dropping em down!

Sorce

 

[Djtommy]

Actually, Adair's correct about the position of the wire being less effective coming from above... nit picky but correct.

If you come from under the branch and bend down you push the wire away from the trunk no? I always try to come from above when i went to bend it down,i always try to wire in the direction i want to bend.

 

[LanceMac10]

No one listens to This Hack anyway!


Sorce

I enjoy your content......

 

[Dav4]

If you come from under the branch and bend down you push the wire away from the trunk no? I always try to come from above when i went to bend it down,i always try to wire in the direction i want to bend.

No. The wire comes from below and over the branch as it begins its first coil... that's where your first bend is and if done correctly, the wire stays in contact with it.

 

[sorce]

your first bend

Who's?

If your going for a quick down...
The bottom wire then only acts as a (fulcrum?) to tear the branch off...

Where we notch the top sometimes...

I put branch where that wire is.....

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

The important thing to remember regardless of what approach you use with some trees, Procumbens Juniper specifically, the strength of the joint between a branch and either a major and larger branch or the trunk is very weak. If this junction is not supported you run the risk of breaking this branch off without any undue stress in your mind. In other words if you pull down the branch and the stress joining point at the junction you may lose the branch. You cannot stress this junction without paying the price. With some trees this does not matter. I find Procumbens' Junipers a strange duck. They seem very flexible and in some ways they are, but when it comes to this one point, it is very deceptive as to how easy these branches can be broken.

 

[Dav4]

Who's?

If your going for a quick down...
The bottom wire then only acts as a (fulcrum?) to tear the branch off...

Where we notch the top sometimes...

I put branch where that wire is.....

Sorce

I don't think you're doing it right. All I know is that I've done it both ways and if you want an effective and safely executed bend right as the branch leaves the trunk, Adair's suggestion is the way to go. Anyway, let's not continue to hijack the thread....

 

[Adair M]

How is figure 3 so different from figure 7?
Looks basically identical.... the anchor point, or lack thereof, doesn't completely wrap around a branch before going on to the 2 branches....

Fig 7 is a bar branch. The wire that goes around (across) the trunk doesn't have enough contact points to act as an anchor. If you push down on the left branch, the right branch will move up!

If two branches are at the same level on the trunk, but not opposite, that is not "bar branches", you can wire them together effectively by making it look like a Fig 3, with the wire wrapping around the trunk.

The test to determine if your wiring is effective is once it's applied, you can move just one branch, and the other branch that's wired not move. If, you move one branch, and the branch wired on the other side of the anchor moves, well, your anchor isn't effective.

 

[just.wing.it]

Fig 7 is a bar branch. The wire that goes around (across) the trunk doesn't have enough contact points to act as an anchor. If you push down on the left branch, the right branch will move up!

If two branches are at the same level on the trunk, but not opposite, that is not "bar branches", you can wire them together effectively by making it look like a Fig 3, with the wire wrapping around the trunk.

The test to determine if your wiring is effective is once it's applied, you can move just one branch, and the other branch that's wired not move. If, you move one branch, and the branch wired on the other side of the anchor moves, well, your anchor isn't effective.

Got it...thank you sir!

 

[Gene Deci]

One of the long time members of my club, Dean Bull, was giving a demo once when a gentleman in the audience said, "I would never have the patience to do that."
Dean looked up for a moment. Then he said, "You know, patience is what you need when you don't like what you are doing."

If working on your trees isn't a pleasure in itself, you probably shouldn't do bonsai.