Wait a second.. This isn't a jack pine! ID please?

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I bought some seeds from Canada in 2018.
The order information clearly said it was a jack pine. The pictures were from a jack pine. The enclosed information said Pinus Banksiana.

But this isn't a jack pine, is it? I'm wondering what it really is.
It's a two needle pine, single flush. It's somewhere between yellow and light green all the time, and has been so since it germinated. Could be too wet though.
The buds have an oddly specific golden tone to them. And another notable trait is that it didn't take long for it to produce adult needles.
The needles are way too long for a jack pine. But since it's from either the US or Canada, I have no clue what it could be. It's not ponderosa, those stay green under my care.

If anyone recognizes the species, I'd be glad to hear it. Thanks for your input!

 

[GGB]

It doesn't seem to be banksiana like you said. Although they can have very long needles the first few years, mine always stayed deep green. A lot of our native pines get that nasty sick yellow color in the winter but a lot of them would be growing farther south than Canada. My first instinct would be to call this rigida but they have 3 needles per fasicle, unless it's just young and it produces three needles this year maybe... Some other natives are virginiana but they have shorter needles, unless this was heavily fertilized, could explain it. There's also echinata, don't let the common name fool you (short needle pine) the needles can be kind of long when fertilized. But again, that pine is a little more southern, unless these were from a temperate part of Canada I think rigida is the only super hardy one mentioned. All three species I named mature and reproduce at very young ages so the needles at a young age checks out, as does the color. One more growing season and I can say 100% whether or not it's virginiana or rigida. If it's echinata it should be pretty clear in a few years, as there is literally no defining trait I can think of for echinata outside of adventitious buds all over the trunk, not just the basal area like rigida.

Just to cover my bases It does look a lot like my pungens seedlings but they don't yellow out much during winter (unless your is ailing) and they are almost non existent in the nursery trade. There was one website a few years ago that had them but they are no longer for sale anywhere at this point.

Like I said, one more season and I can give you a positive ID. Be careful crowd sourcing pine IDs I hear a lot of oddball answers on here

 

[Vance Wood]

I see no reason or visible evidence it is not a Jack Pine. Let it grow and fertilize it occasionally to see what it's going to do.

 

[EPM]

A couple years ago I started some jack pine from seed. They had longer, more stringy needles than I expected and looked a lot like your picture except your pines’s needles are much more yellowish. The buds were also distinctly different from my JBP, JRP, and sylvestris buds. If I were you I’d explore the overwatering/pH/mineral deficiency angles and see where that takes you. I remember going through the same thought process as you and wondering if I mixed something up or got the wrong seed. I’m not saying that I’m 100% sure they are jack pine, just that what you have looks the same as what I have and I also ordered jack pine seeds. Hope this helps.

 

[River's Edge]

I see no reason or visible evidence it is not a Jack Pine

Ditto, expect the color would vary if the soil mix were less moisture retentive. Just for kicks experiment with a less organic %. Needle length not so reliable under various care routines. Juvenile growth less reliable as well! Put in the sun and wait a year

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Alrighty, thanks guys!
I'll call it a jack pine for the time being. I ordered some more jack pine seeds from a different vendor and we'll see how those turn out in comparison.
I thought all jack pines had tiny needles, I only know the adult ones from very expensive nursery material that I'm never going to buy, but the pictures on the internet show tiny needles on saplings too.

I'll give them some less soaky soil now that almost everything is done in the backyard anyways. The buds are only just swelling.

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

Are you in a club or with an association? There are numerous in The Netherlands.
In my opinion this is not the way too do bonsai. They will help you get healthy tree's, seedlings etc etc.
A tree in this condition is not recognizable. When a started I had the same problem over and over again, then a started too take lessons in the bonsaihut.
That was really helpful.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Are you in a club or with an association? There are numerous in The Netherlands.
In my opinion this is not the way too do bonsai. They will help you get healthy tree's, seedlings etc etc.
A tree in this condition is not recognizable. When a started I had the same problem over and over again, then a started too take lessons in the bonsaihut.
That was really helpful.

You are absolutely right about my way of doing bonsai. I included my philosophy in my signature for that exact reason. I just want some funky plants in tiny pots.
Out of the all sticks I have, some are unhealthy: All my JBP, one magnolia, one mugo, one longaeva and this 'jack pine'. But I have 130+ plants on the other side of the balance which are perfectly healthy. I think that's not a bad score overall. My loss of seedlings younger than 2 years old this year is <3%. In my view, that's not very bad either.

I should join a club, but I have no time for that unfortunately. I also don't have a car, that makes things a lot more difficult.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I've raised a few Jack pine from seed. Your seedlings do look like Jack pine seedlings that are being kept too wet and not getting enough sun.

They come from very sandy soils, think perfect drainage. They need air penetration into the mix. They do not do well in organic mixes.

 

[GGB]

I guess most people feel like it is Jack pine. Again time will tell. Here's a pic of a two year old jack pine from my garden. I chopped it down to the first branch for movement but you get the idea. The needles are much longer than a mature tree's.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I guess most people feel like it is Jack pine. Again time will tell. Here's a pic of a two year old jack pine from my garden. I chopped it down to the first branch for movement but you get the idea. The needles are much longer than a mature tree's.

Apart from the color, it looks very similar! Thanks!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I've raised a few Jack pine from seed. Your seedlings do look like Jack pine seedlings that are being kept too wet and not getting enough sun.

They come from very sandy soils, think perfect drainage. They need air penetration into the mix. They do not do well in organic mixes.

My soil started as organic, but after two years of dumping cow dung pellets on there it was basically mud.
I did a quick repot, we'll see how that turns out. I think it'll be happier in a couple of weeks, if it doesn't die.

 

[A. Gorilla]

I've raised a few Jack pine from seed. Your seedlings do look like Jack pine seedlings that are being kept too wet and not getting enough sun.

They come from very sandy soils, think perfect drainage. They need air penetration into the mix. They do not do well in organic mixes.

Aren't they pioneer trees post-fire?

Unrelenting sun would be in order, as you implied.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Mine are in pretty much pure pumice. There is a little of everything in my mix for them but it is over 75% pumice.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

In their southern range, central Wisconsin and west central lower peninsula Michigan, they are fire pioneers, and sand dune pioneers, they are in the "Sand Counties" of Wisconsin, and similar area in Michigan. Up north their range spreads out into more diverse habitats.