Virginia Pine - Is this tree worth trying as bonsai?

[VAFisher]

I was out driving around on Saturday with the fiancé looking at possible wedding sites and I was able to crow-bar some bonsai prospecting into all of the wedding planning fun. My beloved rolled her eyes a bit, but didn't put up too much of a stink, as I veered off the main road down the gravel drive that leads to the nursery. We were a couple hours from home so I knew I had to go for it, since it might be a while before I was out that way again. I've learned to just go ahead and stop and then ask if she minds - I mean at that point we're already there right?

Anyway, I didn't linger as long as I would have liked, but I did come across this Virginia Pine for $24 and decided to pull the trigger. If it's no good as bonsai, I can always plant it somewhere in the yard. I've read that they can be treated like Mugo and Scots, so I thought the first order of business might be to get it into a box. Maybe take away 1/3 of the roots and back fill with good bonsai soil? And then start a strategy to chase the branches back. Do these back bud as easily as Mugo and Scots? At the moment, it stands about 3 feet tall and is pretty lanky.

Would you mess with it, or just plant it in the landscape?

 

[Adair M]

Actually, Virginia Pine can be treated like a Japanese BLACK pine! They can be decandled just like JBP.

DON'T mess with the roots this time of year. Virginia Pine are fussy with their roots, and certainly won't like them cut back in summer. Wait until early next spring.

They will make flakey bark. The needles will twist. They are slow to build trunk. So, plan on making it look tall and slim. You can wire it, they're kinda brittle like JRP.

Decandling will make the internodes shorten and reduce the needles. Now is a good time to decandle VP.

 

[Cypress187]

It's very nice, but also very skinny.

 

[rockm]

this one aint' worth the time at this point. Needs about a decade in the ground to make it worth the trouble.

 

[VAFisher]

Re: the skinny trunk - one thought I had was to try to bend the crap out of it and turn it into some type of literati. Might be fun to play with. It's definitely too skinny to make a believable formal or informal upright - I agree.

Adair, thanks for the clarification. After a quick google the other night, I read a comment from someone on another forum that said they followed Vance's mugo techniques (including summer repot) with their Virginia Pine and had good success. But, I'll certainly wait on messing with the roots based on your advice. Will this put out another flush of growth this year if it is decandled?

 

[Cypress187]

My spruce is also very skinny and im also going to lateraty it, or just hobby on it to test stuff out. But rockm is right, they are not so ideal for a show-wining bonsai in this stage / skinnyness.

 

[VAFisher]

A couple more questions for the pine experts. Is there a rule of thumb for how much foliage is safe to remove when working on a tree like this? Obviously for a literati I will need to considerably work the foliage down from the amount the tree has now. Over how long a period of time should I work to accomplish this?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I wouldn't remove anything right now. Best to wait until fall to begin pruning and wiring pines.
Yes you can remove all of this year's candles, but until you establish the basic branch structure, decandling is an unnecessary stressor which will make fall work even more stressful.

 

[coh]

I wanted to jump in since we're mixing the discussion of pine species here...didn't want to start a separate thread.

I have a JBP that is in a nursery pot, overdue by at least a year (probably 2) to be slipped into a larger size. It's not growing as vigorously this season as I'd hoped and I was thinking about just slipping it into a larger container now, with minimal root disturbance. What say you pine experts? Worth the risk or just wait till spring? This is a tree I've been growing for trunk size for about 5 years (it still has a way to go) and it started as a seedling, so no great $ investment here.

Chris

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

As long as you can still water it, Chris, I see no benefit to slip-potting it now. In fact, it could be counter-productive, as the roots aren't likely to colonize the new soil layer, so it will stay wet, while the interior stays dry.

 

[qwade]

My beloved rolled her eyes a bit, but

My beloved after 27 years of 'blissful' (lol) marriage finally bought me a tree. She was out in Orange County Ca for a geocaching gathering. Arrived back in Philly with temps well below zero. Tree arrived in great shape but after just 2 weeks looked like this!


Pinus Virginiana grows like weeds in my area. Second to only our P. Rigida. I've tried Rigid(Failure) and our P. Strobus with some success .Will try Virginia in the near future. I would say definitely give it a go.

Wife's gift

 

[Giga]

As said Virginia pine are very finicky about their roots- more so then other pines I've found. I've killed a few treating them like JPB and find now that when I work Virginia pines I only 1/3 or 1/4 bare root rather then half. But once established the can be treated just like black pine and do very well to bonsai techniques.

 

[VAFisher]

I wanted to post a quick update of my Virginia Pine. Here's what it looked like last fall after hacking away at it and reducing the roots by about half to get it in this box. I think I was trying to see if I could get any bend in the trunk with all of that wire but it didn't work. Please don't tell Adair that I was/am using aluminum on this pine...



And here's a current shot after reducing further and putting it into a bonsai pot. I'm going for something literati-ish. I would love to hear thoughts on this tree.

 

[JoeR]

Nice! Great improvement. The species seems very promising.

I started 100 V. pine seeds and they are germinating now.

Think I can do the seedling cutting method on them??

 

[jeanluc83]

Think I can do the seedling cutting method on them??

It worked for me with Pitch pine. I can's see why it wouldn't work for Virginia pine.

I'm not completely convinced that seedling cuttings are absolutely necessary. The cuttings did produce more radial roots but by only a little bit over the non cut ones. I think frequent root work is more important and has more of an effect.

I did however find it interesting that the seedling cuttings are not at all behind the un cut ones.

 

[VAFisher]

Nice! Great improvement. The species seems very promising.

I started 100 V. pine seeds and they are germinating now.

Think I can do the seedling cutting method on them??

Thanks. I'll have to defer to someone else on that question. I really have no idea.

 

[sorce]

Nice VA!

Great use of the material IMO.

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

I wanted to post a quick update of my Virginia Pine. Here's what it looked like last fall after hacking away at it and reducing the roots by about half to get it in this box. I think I was trying to see if I could get any bend in the trunk with all of that wire but it didn't work. Please don't tell Adair that I was/am using aluminum on this pine...



And here's a current shot after reducing further and putting it into a bonsai pot. I'm going for something literati-ish. I would love to hear thoughts on this tree.

You CAN use aluminum on pine. But, as you found out, it's not very effective.

My advice on using copper over aluminum is due to copper will do the job better.

You do need to do something about that vertical straight section on the bottom.

I don't think wire will do it. You need some kind of contraption. Something like: stake a 2x2 next to the trunk, and secure the bottom of the trunk to it. Pad it. Then place a block of wood between the bottom, and the first scar. Then wire the tree back flush to the stake, up somewhere near that first big scar. Pad it. That will put some curve in that section. The amount of curve depends on how fat a block of wood you choose.

Right now, it looks like a shepard's hook.

 

[VAFisher]

Haha. Yeah I actually call it my shepard's hook pine. I've been thinking of ways to do what you are describing. Maybe a piece of re-bar would work too.

 

[Borg]

I was just thinking about this species a couple days ago.