Very super absolute beginnings

[Fonz]

What is the most valuable/informative/got-to-check-out book a new person should consume before/during their entry into bonsai? (Not as a replacement, but as an addition to the above mentioned advice toward getting hands-on and in-person education)

I really liked Harry Tomlinson's book: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Book-Bonsai-Practical-Cultivation/dp/B00F9AN9HM
I'm into bonsai for 1,5 years now and since reading that book I know everything about bonsai now...
Well maybe about 1 or 2%...

But this book really gives you the basics of the hobby. After that you can go a lot more specific like Peter Adam's maple book or Stone Lantern's Pine book etc.
But I'm sure there are a lot of other great beginner books out there.

 

[Adair M]

I’m going to suggest an alternate approach

The best way to learn is in a structured, hands on, setting where there are lots of examples of good advanced bonsai to study. AND, bonsai that are “in process” of becoming bonsai. All shapes, sizes, varieties, stages of development. Viewing such trees will reach you far more effectively than any other method. Then, having structured instruction showing the details, and followed by actual “hand on” instruction will shave YEARS off the learning curve!

These programs are taught by Masters who have apprenticed in Japan, and they strive to be immersive, concentrated study for those who are serious about learning bonsai.

Here are 4 programs that I would recommend:

Michael Hagedorn’ “Seasonal” series. He’s in Portland, OR.

Bjorn Bjorhom’s “Intensive” program. He is near Nashville, TN.

Boon Manakitivipat’s “Intensive” program. He’s near Sacramento, CA.

Ryan Neil’s programs. He’s near Portland, OR.


These are all similiar programs where the student travels to the Master’s garden and studies on site for three days at a time. There are multiple sessions during the year where the student learns the appropriate things to do in that season.

Most require the student to commit to a whole year’s worth of classes. Boon does not.

I am a graduate of Boon’s program, yet I continue to return as I have found that the more I learn, I discover there’s more that I do not know! (Or, at least, there’s more to learn!)

(Some people travel to play golf, or ski. I travel to do bonsai! Lol!!!)

Sure, the programs cost a bit of money. The travel costs more that the fee! But the experience is absolutely the best way to go from “never-ever” to “competent”. In fact, going with no experience is excellent because you won’t have any bad habits or misconceptions to “unlearn”!

 

[rockm]

So I've looked in to the different collection methods... seed, air layering, yamadori, nursery, bonsai professional... I have a vision of what I'd like to do with bonsai... but that's for later (of course). I think for intro, I thought I'd do a combo to have variety and keep it interesting and also allow me to be patient by forcing my attention to other plants and letting some just 'be' for a while.

Thoughts?

This is another can of worms, but by and large, air layering and seeds are not the most progressive or easy methods to begin bonsai. Most bonsai are not started with seeds. They are cut down from larger stock. Growing from seeds also requires a lot of just growing out and knowing how to prune roots. The point of growing from seed is to have a tree that has been grown out using bonsai knowledge--correct hard pruning of the top--or not, as well as excellent roots. As a beginner, you won't have that knowledge immediately or at the right time to get the most out of seeds. That said, plant em anyway if you have the space. Only don't count on them as bonsai for a long while.

As for air layering, what can I say. It's an easy thing to suggest and it's suggested a lot by a lot of people who may or may not have done it. In practice it's pretty hit and miss. Mostly miss if you haven't done it more than a few times. Good luck.

 

[Csmdad]

This is another can of worms, but by and large, air layering and seeds are not the most progressive or easy methods to begin bonsai. Most bonsai are not started with seeds. They are cut down from larger stock. Growing from seeds also requires a lot of just growing out and knowing how to prune roots. The point of growing from seed is to have a tree that has been grown out using bonsai knowledge--correct hard pruning of the top--or not, as well as excellent roots. As a beginner, you won't have that knowledge immediately or at the right time to get the most out of seeds. That said, plant em anyway if you have the space. Only don't count on them as bonsai for a long while.

As for air layering, what can I say. It's an easy thing to suggest and it's suggested a lot by a lot of people who may or may not have done it. In practice it's pretty hit and miss. Mostly miss if you haven't done it more than a few times. Good luck.

Yeah... this part of the convo seems to be rabbit-hole-ing a little. And knowing the risk of continuing in this vein, but also seeking to provide clarity of thought, I was honestly looking at about three trees to begin, each with a different intent. 1 collected, 1 (or 2) nursery, and 1 established bonsai with a different intent for each.
Collected - My intended artistic direction and interest in bonsai stems (pardon the pun) from this. I also want to learn the skills and processes involved in going this route and that'll take actually doing it. Initially, I'm just going to work on harvesting it and keeping it alive.
Nursery - For general skill development and as inexpensive practice stock
Established - Having an established tree to learn the skills involved in raising true bonsai so when I get where I want to go with yamadori, then I'll have experience with raising them as established trees.

Again, not talking back. I both appreciate your insight and I know enough to know I know nothing... I'm just looking to provide clarity since typing in a BBS often looses clarity of thought.

 

[Gene Deci]

OK good for you. You are a better man than I. By and large, I believe what I've said holds true. Additionally, most initial collected trees wind up being a burden over time. As you get more skills and a better eye, you start to see the trees you've accumulated are mostly junk and/or ugly. I began colleting two years into bonsai. It took five years but I got rid of all those collected trees --which were mostly spindly, ugly crappola.. I began collecting stuff that was worth collecting--which is another issue...

I suspect you are the better man - bonsai wise in any case. I have collected a lot of crappola too. The difference is I don't regret it.

 

[Csmdad]

I’m going to suggest an alternate approach

The best way to learn is in a structured, hands on, setting where there are lots of examples of good advanced bonsai to study. AND, bonsai that are “in process” of becoming bonsai. All shapes, sizes, varieties, stages of development. Viewing such trees will reach you far more effectively than any other method. Then, having structured instruction showing the details, and followed by actual “hand on” instruction will shave YEARS off the learning curve!

These programs are taught by Masters who have apprenticed in Japan, and they strive to be immersive, concentrated study for those who are serious about learning bonsai.

Here are 4 programs that I would recommend:

Michael Hagedorn’ “Seasonal” series. He’s in Portland, OR.

Bjorn Bjorhom’s “Intensive” program. He is near Nashville, TN.

Boon Manakitivipat’s “Intensive” program. He’s near Sacramento, CA.

Ryan Neil’s programs. He’s near Portland, OR.


These are all similiar programs where the student travels to the Master’s garden and studies on site for three days at a time. There are multiple sessions during the year where the student learns the appropriate things to do in that season.

Most require the student to commit to a whole year’s worth of classes. Boon does not.

I am a graduate of Boon’s program, yet I continue to return as I have found that the more I learn, I discover there’s more that I do not know! (Or, at least, there’s more to learn!)

(Some people travel to play golf, or ski. I travel to do bonsai! Lol!!!)

Sure, the programs cost a bit of money. The travel costs more that the fee! But the experience is absolutely the best way to go from “never-ever” to “competent”. In fact, going with no experience is excellent because you won’t have any bad habits or misconceptions to “unlearn”!

I'll be honest with you. That's probably the best route, sure... but I'm just not going to be able to do that right out of the gates. I'll certainly put it on the list of options to consider in the "near" future.

 

[rockm]

I suspect you are the better man - bonsai wise in any case. I have collected a lot of crappola too. The difference is I don't regret it.

I regretted collecting the stuff I did initially. Those trees wasted a lot of time and effort. I also wound up killing a few really good candidates because I didn't know what I was doing.

 

[Joe Dupre']

Remembering this one thing will help you more than almost anything else. If you do the right thing to the tree at the right time, you'll have good success. If you the right thing at the wrong time you'll probably end up with a dead tree. Keeping a tree alive is a very important skill. And remember that failure is also a learning experience.

 

[JPfagus]

Hi all.

So I'm super-super-super-new to bonsai. I mean when I say new, I mean the "I don't even own a bonsai tree" type of super-new to bonsai, but hear me out.

For the past 2 months (well... all of Nov and now over half of Dec) I've been studying bonsai. (Not totally "pinterest-study" either.) I understand that design and flow are a major component, but I want to know the mechanics and the how and the why before I get into the "pretty tree" aspect. I want to know what makes good soil, how to cultivate the tree both above and below the dirt-line for maximum ramification. I've watched hours upon hours of video (Mirai, Bonsai Zone, Eastern Leaf, Herons, Iligan, Ma-Ke, etc. ... Honestly, I think I may have reached the bottom of the English barrel and have started watching those ones in Japanese and Spanish.). I've listened to hour upon hour of podcasts (Mirai with Ryan's interviews of bonsai masters). I've read and read. I've studied, I've poured over the pages of B-Nut (https://www.bonsainut.com/resources/). I've taken notes and compiled and done local research into the local climate and its impact on horticulture in my area. I'm starting to wire up branches to get the tactile ideas and trying to employ the techniques I've seen to not damage the tree while achieving desired bends. I've prepped an area in my yard which I believe will offer wind protection, semi-sun, semi-shade. I've looked up and designed automatic irrigation systems because I travel a bunch and don't want to come home to dead trees (I've also got people back here who can aid in watering and the like.)

So why am I posting here? What do I want?

I know I don't know everything and I probably never will, but I want to hit the ground properly and with a solid foundation.
I want to do what's best for the living things I'm going to take into my care.
I want to tap the group's hive-mind to get a bit of retrospect from your beginning days.
What tools did you wish you'd had?
What was the first thing(s) you found yourself lacking?
Which books did you wish you'd read?
What things didn't work and how could it have been done better?
What do you wish you knew back then?
How would that knowledge have changed the trees you own now?
What stalled your personal growth?
What stalled the growth/development of your tree(s)?
What "bone-head" mistakes do you see n00bz making over and over again?

I am researching and acquiring tools (sheers, pliers, saws, hooks, collection tools, etc) and supplies (soil/fertilizer/wire/containers/etc) now for a true entry to the art in late winter/early spring of 2019 (yamadori and nursery season)

A smart man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man learns from others.

I am very curious if you ever got a tree or still have an Interest? I haven't read the thread yet but you need some trees man. You can read and study all you want and I'm sure it will help, but you need to be hands on or you will either lose interest, or have to many expectations and confidence will plummet once you eventually do put your knowledge to practice and realize too much information can be a dangerous thing. I hope it worked out and you still growing trees