Twisty Shohin JPB

[Rodrigo]

Today my girlfriend and I went to a bonsai auction but unfortunately I couldn't bid on anything because they were all too large for what I was looking for. The auction was coincidentally held at the biggest bonsai nursery I've been to and after looking around for a while, I found this twisty Shohin JPB. The pot is just under 2" tall and the tree is 7" from rim to tip.

The gentleman who hosted the auction told me that he bought it at the 2016 Kokufu in Tokyo along with several others and this was the last one he had. The pot has this marking in between two of the feet, does anyone recognize it?


It looks like it's been decandled and the buds are already starting to pop. I'll be starting to fertilize when they get a little bit bigger.


Although there are plenty of green needles on it, there is some yellowing on the older needles, but does it have needle cast?



There is also some wire that needs to come off because it's already bitting in.



I look forward to seeing where this tree progresses in the future!

 

[0soyoung]

yer gunna have fun
yer gunna have fun
e i e i o

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The pot is from the Touyou kiln, which is in the Tokoname co-op. Good quality, but not expensive.

Yes, it has a little needle cast. I treat mine with Mancozeb. Treat it now and every few weeks so the fungus present on the old needles doesn’t infect the new ones growing as a result of summer candle-cutting. Break the cycle.

When you repot, consider planting it at a slant to the right so the trunk doesn’t exit the soil straight up, then move into a series of curves. The present angle looks very manufactured, and you can improve it by making that change.

 

[Thomas J.]

I too was at that auction and in fact I remember seeing you walking around with that tree. You're right in quickly removing any wire that's biting in but careful in giving too much fertilizer at this time or the buds you're getting now will have longer needles than you would probably like for this small tree. Your main objective for this JBP should be to not only have short needles but to have a nice branch structure and of course that will happen over time. This falls needle pulling should show you more of what you have and what to look forward to. You should have no problem having something like this a few years.

 

[Adair M]

Today my girlfriend and I went to a bonsai auction but unfortunately I couldn't bid on anything because they were all too large for what I was looking for. The auction was coincidentally held at the biggest bonsai nursery I've been to and after looking around for a while, I found this twisty Shohin JPB. The pot is just under 2" tall and the tree is 7" from rim to tip.
View attachment 202080
The gentleman who hosted the auction told me that he bought it at the 2016 Kokufu in Tokyo along with several others and this was the last one he had. The pot has this marking in between two of the feet, does anyone recognize it?
View attachment 202081

It looks like it's been decandled and the buds are already starting to pop. I'll be starting to fertilize when they get a little bit bigger.
View attachment 202082

Although there are plenty of green needles on it, there is some yellowing on the older needles, but does it have needle cast?

View attachment 202083

There is also some wire that needs to come off because it's already bitting in.

View attachment 202084

I look forward to seeing where this tree progresses in the future!

The wire is biting in a little, but it’s not real bad. If you remove it, do it SOON, or wait until late fall. The new buds that are coming in are very delicate when they are at this stage, and if you are not used to handling pines, you may damage them when trying to remove the wire. If you do it late fall, they will have hardened off, and less subject to damage. Then again, the wire will have been on a little longer, and biting in more!

So, if you remove it soon, be very careful!

I would use pliers, and unwind it.

Wait about a month before fertilizing.

It does have a mild case of needlecast. Treat as BVF advised. Then in late fall, pull the old needles.

This fall, when you can see what you really have, see it there is a low branch that you won’t need as a part of the design. Next year, just let it grow straight up, and don’t decandle it. You need to build some girth on that trunk.

I seriously doubt that tree was purchased at Kokofu

 

[Rodrigo]

The pot is from the Touyou kiln, which is in the Tokoname co-op. Good quality, but not expensive.
View attachment 202122
Yes, it has a little needle cast. I treat mine with Mancozeb. Treat it now and every few weeks so the fungus present on the old needles doesn’t infect the new ones growing as a result of summer candle-cutting. Break the cycle.

When you repot, consider planting it at a slant to the right so the trunk doesn’t exit the soil straight up, then move into a series of curves. The present angle looks very manufactured, and you can improve it by making that change.

Thank you for the pot ID! Even if it's not expensive it's nice to know some information about where it came from--I really like it.

I'll look into mancozeb asap so I can get that taken care of. I'll also make sure to spray my other pines so it doesn't spread to them either.

I agree on the present angle looking man-made. I'll definitely be looking at changing the planting angle when I repot. Thank you!

 

[Rodrigo]

I too was at that auction and in fact I remember seeing you walking around with that tree. You're right in quickly removing any wire that's biting in but careful in giving too much fertilizer at this time or the buds you're getting now will have longer needles than you would probably like for this small tree. Your main objective for this JBP should be to not only have short needles but to have a nice branch structure and of course that will happen over time. This falls needle pulling should show you more of what you have and what to look forward to. You should have no problem having something like this a few years. View attachment 202130

No way?! That's awesome. Larry has some amazing trees huh? Did you end up getting anything?

Yeah I'll be careful with fertilizing, I wasn't going to start fertilizing quite yet anyways but I think I'll wait longer than I was going to for them to extend more, and then I'll start.

That's a beautiful pine! Hopefully one day I can this one to a similar point.

 

[Rodrigo]

The wire is biting in a little, but it’s not real bad. If you remove it, do it SOON, or wait until late fall. The new buds that are coming in are very delicate when they are at this stage, and if you are not used to handling pines, you may damage them when trying to remove the wire. If you do it late fall, they will have hardened off, and less subject to damage. Then again, the wire will have been on a little longer, and biting in more!

So, if you remove it soon, be very careful!

I would use pliers, and unwind it.

Wait about a month before fertilizing.

It does have a mild case of needlecast. Treat as BVF advised. Then in late fall, pull the old needles.

This fall, when you can see what you really have, see it there is a low branch that you won’t need as a part of the design. Next year, just let it grow straight up, and don’t decandle it. You need to build some girth on that trunk.

I seriously doubt that tree was purchased at Kokofu

I think I'll go ahead and take the wire off today. I noticed other areas where the wire is already a almost completely swallowed so I'll do it before it gets worse.

I tried looking for a branch that I can use as a sacrifice but you're right, I need to wait until I can needle pluck so I can see the structure better. I may also be needing to graft a root on the back side because if you were to look at the tree from the side there is a bit inverse taper where there should be a root. That's in the future though.

I seriously doubt that tree was purchased at Kokofu

You may be right, as I'm not expert, but this same guy has trees from the same digger that Kimura uses, along with trees from several other Japanese masters he mentioned so he could very well have gotten it at the Kokufu. Like I said though, you could be right

 

[Adair M]

Rodrigo, I’m assuming you live in Texas, yes?

That pine is only about 4 or 5 years old. At most. Importing trees from Japan, legally, is a huge hassle, and is expensive. It’s only worth doing on expensive trees.

Smuggling a tree in can cost an importer his business. I’m not saying it’s not done, but the reprocussions of getting caught aren’t worth it, unless the tree is really expensive. Even then...

At Kokofu, there is a sales area called “The Green Club”. There are all levels of trees sold there. From the very finest to rough stock. Again, vendor space at The Green Club is very expensive. It’s not worth the table space there to sell a tree like that. Not when they can just as easily sell something many times more expensive and make a lot more money.

I’m sorry, but you were sold “a story”.

JBP like that are readily available, locally grown.

All that aside, you can still have fun with it, and learn from it.

If you live in Dallas, TX, I encourage you to get in touch with the Smith’s for bonsai workshops, education, and material. Www.bonsaismiths.net

 

[Thomas J.]

Did you end up getting anything?

I was checking out some of the small ch. elms he had but he had so many I couldn't make up my mind and that sun was killing me out there so I just gave up and went home with hopes to go back when it's not so hot.

 

[Thomas J.]

That's a beautiful pine! Hopefully one day I can this one to a similar point.

In time JBPs will really reward you if you work them right and fertilize when you should and shouldn't. This was about 5yrs ago on that same tree as compared to today. Patience will be your best friend with JBPs.

 

[Rodrigo]

Rodrigo, I’m assuming you live in Texas, yes?

That pine is only about 4 or 5 years old. At most. Importing trees from Japan, legally, is a huge hassle, and is expensive. It’s only worth doing on expensive trees.

Smuggling a tree in can cost an importer his business. I’m not saying it’s not done, but the reprocussions of getting caught aren’t worth it, unless the tree is really expensive. Even then...

At Kokofu, there is a sales area called “The Green Club”. There are all levels of trees sold there. From the very finest to rough stock. Again, vendor space at The Green Club is very expensive. It’s not worth the table space there to sell a tree like that. Not when they can just as easily sell something many times more expensive and make a lot more money.

I’m sorry, but you were sold “a story”.

JBP like that are readily available, locally grown.

All that aside, you can still have fun with it, and learn from it.

If you live in Dallas, TX, I encourage you to get in touch with the Smith’s for bonsai workshops, education, and material. Www.bonsaismiths.net

Yes sir I live in Dallas and well, shit. lol thanks for explaining that to me, it definitely make sense. He had a very nice, larger red pine next to this one that was $1,200 that he mentioned was also imported from Japan. That one is more believable, although now I'm not sure what to believe. Too bad I didn't take a picture.

Yeah the Smiths are great, I've known them for a little while now. Silvia actually helped me make the final choice between this and another black pine. Do you know them personally?

 

[Velodog2]

Yeah I bought something extremely similar on a Facebook auction this spring as a fun jpb to practice on and make a nice little tree out of someday hopefully. But def not from japan.

 

[Rodrigo]

I was checking out some of the small ch. elms he had but he had so many I couldn't make up my mind and that sun was killing me out there so I just gave up and went home with hopes to go back when it's not so hot.

Yeah I don't blame you hahah it's been freaking hot the last few days.
He has an infinite amount of choices haha it took me like 2 hours to come to a final decision. I actually got one of those Chinese elms at his last auction and when I repotted it most of the roots were rotted to mush so be careful when choosing!

In time JBPs will really reward you if you work them right and fertilize when you should and shouldn't. This was about 5yrs ago on that same tree as compared to today. Patience will be your best friend with JBPs. View attachment 202220

 that's impressive! Thank for sharing! Definitely looking forward to it

 

[Adair M]

Yes sir I live in Dallas and well, shit. lol thanks for explaining that to me, it definitely make sense. He had a very nice, larger red pine next to this one that was $1,200 that he mentioned was alsothem imported from Japan. That one is more believable, although now I'm not sure what to believe. Too bad I didn't take a picture.

Yeah the Smiths are great, I've known them for a little while now. Silvia actually helped me make the final choice between this and another black pine. Do you know them personally?

Why, yes I do! You cannot do better than the Smiths in your area! Especially with Black Pine. Do what they say to do. Their garden actually doesn’t get enough air circulation and sun, but there’s little they can do about that.

 

[Rodrigo]

Why, yes I do! You cannot do better than the Smiths in your area! Especially with Black Pine. Do what they say to do. Their garden actually doesn’t get enough air circulation and sun, but there’s little they can do about that.

I agree, they really are amazing and they love to help out. I've been to their garden and although I didn't notice the air circulation issue, they do have an impressive collection!

 

[Rodrigo]

Yes, it has a little needle cast. I treat mine with Mancozeb. Treat it now and every few weeks so the fungus present on the old needles doesn’t infect the new ones growing as a result of summer candle-cutting. Break the cycle

Brian, what dilution rates do you use? I just got a bottle of Mancozeb but the instructions are all for fruits and vegetables

 

[Rodrigo]

@Brian Van Fleet
I forgot to tag you in my last post

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

The pot is from the Touyou kiln, which is in the Tokoname co-op. Good quality, but not expensive.
View attachment 202122
Yes, it has a little needle cast. I treat mine with Mancozeb. Treat it now and every few weeks so the fungus present on the old needles doesn’t infect the new ones growing as a result of summer candle-cutting. Break the cycle.

When you repot, consider planting it at a slant to the right so the trunk doesn’t exit the soil straight up, then move into a series of curves. The present angle looks very manufactured, and you can improve it by making that change.

Hi Brian,
I read that your recommendation for needle cast is to use Mancozeb as a protectant for the new needles.

I gather that Clearys 555 ( different in my part of world) as a systemic is used to control(kill) an outbreak of Needlecast but I am confused as to whether this is successful.
I would like you or @Adair M to explain the theory or a link to read more about this fungus that almost everyone can get and difficult to control?
Charles

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Hi Brian,
I read that your recommendation for needle cast is to use Mancozeb as a protectant for the new needles.

I gather that Clearys 555 ( different in my part of world) as a systemic is used to control(kill) an outbreak of Needlecast but I am confused as to whether this is successful.
I would like you or @Adair M to explain the theory or a link to read more about this fungus that almost everyone can get and difficult to control?
Charles

I haven’t used clearys so I can’t help you. Read up on Needle Cast then pick the fungicides that work to break the cycle.
@Rodrigo I use 1-2 Tablespoons of Mancozeb per gallon of water.