Trying again princess persimmon and pinus densiflora seeds

[NaoTK]

Nao,
I remember reading that you have successfully graft female branch to male. Success? Please give us an update. I have many male PP that I can try.
Am curious about grafting PP to other persimmon that grow much faster. Are you planning on trying that one day?

Yes it is not difficult graft persimmon. see below for some tips.
Yes I will try to graft princess persimmon onto Lotus persimmon next year to make it grow faster. Actually, many eating persimmons are grafted onto lotus persimmon. We should try Virginiana for cold resistance.

1. I grafted in mid-April in Oregon, right when the buds are swelling on the scion. For TX I have no clue. The Japanese books say you can do it in Fall. I also tried fall this year but we had some bad hot weather. We should try it in Feb-March as well.
2. You cannot graft onto old wood, it must be a <2yr young shoot with green cambium.
3. The scion should have 2 buds and be a couple mm in diameter. It should be from last year's growth, sort of vigorous but lignified, not soft green.
4. use a new sharp razor blade and do a standard wedge graft. I will try cleft grafting next year. I wrapped the union in tight electrical tape. No cut paste or anything.
5. The Japanese books do not wrap the assembly in plastic, but I opted to put a small wad of wet sphagnum and covered everything in a plastic bag.
6. I left everything for 1 month without touching it or moving it. I had it in indirect light.

May 27: It was obvious the graft took. I took off the plastic covering slowly


June 25: you can see the black scar tissue welded the two together. I cut off the understock male branch.


July 8:

 

[bwaynef]

PP does not struggle with the heat or low humidity, IMHO. They loved conditions in SoCal... and then three years ago I moved them to NC and they did well until last winter and the big freeze in December. So I would say - heat and humidity tolerant... deep freeze not so much.

Its VERY interesting you say that. I helped a guy "collect" some princess persimmons that had escaped roots out of their pots that they'd been in for YEARS late last fall. That was right before we went to 8ºF for 4-5 days. This spring he noticed that several didn't leaf out and we both assumed it had more to do with our "collection" than anything else. They've all (I think) leafed out since then, but its interesting to consider that it might've been cold-related.

I protected the young PP to JUST below freezing during that cold spell and they're growing well for me all year.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Its VERY interesting you say that. I helped a guy "collect" some princess persimmons that had escaped roots out of their pots that they'd been in for YEARS late last fall. That was right before we went to 8ºF for 4-5 days. This spring he noticed that several didn't leaf out and we both assumed it had more to do with our "collection" than anything else. They've all (I think) leafed out since then, but its interesting to consider that it might've been cold-related.

I protected the young PP to JUST below freezing during that cold spell and they're growing well for me all year.

It is hard to say. That was an unusual freeze - not only in terms of low temps, but it stayed low for several days. I lost 41 trees in total. It was mostly my fault - because I did NOTHING to any of my trees to prepare them for the cold, because it was my third year here and I had not had any problems the prior two winters. However the prior two winters were relatively mild, and though we got some nights into the mid 20's, there wasn't a single day where the high wasn't above freezing.

I should have paid more attention, but I didn't. I just waited for trees to bud out in the spring... and many did not.

I did not lose a single conifer - only deciduous trees.

 

[River's Edge]

It is hard to say. That was an unusual freeze - not only in terms of low temps, but it stayed low for several days. I lost 41 trees in total. It was mostly my fault - because I did NOTHING to any of my trees to prepare them for the cold, because it was my third year here and I had not had any problems the prior two winters. However the prior two winters were relatively mild, and though we got some nights into the mid 20's, there wasn't a single day where the high wasn't above freezing.

I should have paid more attention, but I didn't. I just waited for trees to bud out in the spring... and many did not.

I did not lose a single conifer - only deciduous trees.

Happened to me last year as well. We moved my nursery in October, short distance 15km or so. So very similar climate. However I did not have my winter greenhouse in the new location. Lost all my black princess persimmon grown from seed 7 years old. Fourteen in total. Colder snap for longer period of time than usual. The trees were protected from wind and on the ground. -7 Celsius for 4 or five days. one or two tried to bud and begin leaf out but all expired in the end.
I was so pleased with the progress up to that point. Other casualties included a few Prunus Mume and Dwarf Japanese maples.
Lesson learned, new greenhouse in place for this winter.

 

[NaoTK]

Happened to me last year as well. We moved my nursery in October, short distance 15km or so. So very similar climate. However I did not have my winter greenhouse in the new location. Lost all my black princess persimmon grown from seed 7 years old. Fourteen in total. Colder snap for longer period of time than usual. The trees were protected from wind and on the ground. -7 Celsius for 4 or five days. one or two tried to bud and begin leaf out but all expired in the end.
I was so pleased with the progress up to that point. Other casualties included a few Prunus Mume and Dwarf Japanese maples.
Lesson learned, new greenhouse in place for this winter.

Oh no! I was admiring those black persimmons. If any of mine make black fruit I will let you know

 

[River's Edge]

Oh no! I was admiring those black persimmons. If any of mine make black fruit I will let you know

Thanks, the plants were propagated from seed I obtained in Kyoto from a vendor Jonas introduced me to at Taken Ten in 2015. Pretty sad to lose all of them at once.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Lost all my black princess persimmon grown from seed 7 years old. Fourteen in total. Colder snap for longer period of time than usual. The trees were protected from wind and on the ground. -7 Celsius for 4 or five days. one or two tried to bud and begin leaf out but all expired in the end.
I was so pleased with the progress up to that point.

Interestingly... I did not lose any of my seedlings. I still have about 120 three and four year-olds, and 80 two year-olds. The seedlings were in germination trays on the same shelves as my larger trees - and if anything had less soil. I would have assumed they would have all died... but no.

I got a very poor germination rate from last year's seeds that I left out in a bag in the garden. This year I am going to overwinter the seeds in a refrigerator if there appears to be a deep freeze headed in our direction - and I'll put all my persimmons in the garage for a few days if necessary. I was also able to snag a large male and female from a local nursery, so at least I'll have germination stock.

One of the "dead" trees budded from a root - so I'll consider it a root cutting. I will be intrigued to see if it flowers next spring.

 

[bwaynef]

Also I should have some pinus desiflora seeds that I can send to those that want to try.

I'm not exactly sure what the offer is, but I'd be up for growing densiflora from seed.

 

[bwaynef]

Happened to me last year as well. We moved my nursery in October, short distance 15km or so. So very similar climate. However I did not have my winter greenhouse in the new location. Lost all my black princess persimmon grown from seed 7 years old. Fourteen in total. Colder snap for longer period of time than usual. The trees were protected from wind and on the ground. -7 Celsius for 4 or five days. one or two tried to bud and begin leaf out but all expired in the end.
I was so pleased with the progress up to that point. Other casualties included a few Prunus Mume and Dwarf Japanese maples.
Lesson learned, new greenhouse in place for this winter.

Thanks, the plants were propagated from seed I obtained in Kyoto from a vendor Jonas introduced me to at Taken Ten in 2015. Pretty sad to lose all of them at once.

I've got seedlings from some black Princess Persimmons growing. Just 6 more years to see if the phenotype translates to the seedlings.

 

[namnhi]

I'm not exactly sure what the offer is, but I'd be up for growing densiflora from seed.

PM me your address. 100 seeds are yours.

 

[namnhi]

I should have a few more batch of 100 red pine seeds if someone want to try. To be fair, the next 10 reply to this thread.

 

[Fishsauce]

I would like to give those red pine seeds a try if you still have some. Thanks.

 

[namnhi]

I would like to give those red pine seeds a try if you still have some. Thanks.

IM me your address. I should have a few more 100-seed batches for those interested.

 

[namnhi]

I finally sown the seeds. I don't have hi hope for PP seeds but am hoping JRP will have high germination rates. The reason for the above statement was because I have failed on PP in the past and had success with black pine. We will see... also I sown these in rock wool.
@bwaynef @Fishsauce @B-Trees Have you sown your jrp seeds? Wonder what is your germination rate.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

FWIW my princess persimmons always germinate pretty late in the year - like May.

 

[bwaynef]

@bwaynef @Fishsauce @B-Trees Have you sown your jrp seeds? Wonder what is your germination rate.

I just found some seeds in an envelope from a guy in TX. I assume they're from you. They're in a sheffields baggie labeled as princess persimmons, but the seeds are tiny relative to what I remember of PP seeds I've sown in the past. A touch smaller than the JBP seed baggie sitting in the cabinet next to this envelope.

I'll work on getting them sown soon.

 

[namnhi]

Red pine is a dud. I didn't stratified the seeds... that could be the reason. On the other hand, PP has a much better germination rate than what I anticipated. It's all good. Persimmons are known to have very long tap root but the rockwools I have them in are only an inch thick... Will see how they cope with that.