Tridents over Seiryu rock

[Pitoon]

So after seeing a few threads on root over rock I decided it was time to do some of my own. I had these Trident cuttings growing out in this pot for a couple years waiting to figure out what to do with them. Now they'll be put to good use.

Here's the cuttings. They've been in this pot about 2yrs and were rooted into the ground where they were at in the backyard.


I bought a bag of Seiryu rock a few weeks ago waiting untill I had some free time to do the root over rock project. Only bad thing about getting a sealed bag is that you can't cherry pick the nicest rocks. About half the bag was useless. Here's the rocks I will be using.


The grow pots I'll be using are 1gal trade short size. Note the circle cut screen at the bottom. This will keep the NAPA 8822 from escaping when I water. The NAPA 8822 will help establish a good amount of feeder roots.



Chopped sphagnum moss will be used on the roots that's spreaded on the rocks.


Here I've removed the soil and seperated them to check out the roots. Each had a decent spread of long roots.

 

[Pitoon]

Now the fun part, but my hands were wet and it was pretty cold outside so I didn't get the chance to enjoy the moment. Worked as fast as I could to lay out the roots over each rock in a way that would compliment both the plant and rock. Each were eventually wrapped with packaging wrap. The exposed roots below the rocks were then spreaded out in the pots. Next summer I will slowly remove the plastic wrap and sphagnum moss probably 1/2" every couple months untill they go dormant this process will continue until all the wrapping is removed. This will harden off the roots on the rocks. The Tridents during this time will be allowed to grow freely unchecked. This will thicken the trunks and the roots over the rocks.

 

[leatherback]

Nice project, good to see you put your seedlings to good use.

I am wondering.. What size trees are you aiming for? Rocks seem to shrink over time as the tree grows..

 

[Shibui]

Those small trees have ideal roots for ROR. You should be able to get some good root arrangement with those.
I am surprised that these are still so small given they are a couple of years old and have had roots out the bottom of the pot.

Only a few of the photos have come up for me. Is that just here or are others having trouble with the pics?

 

[Cadillactaste]

A snippet out of a good book...on ROR.

Looked like good material of roots they offered up for this project too!

 

[SeanS]

@Shibui I can see all the pics.

some of those rocks seem awfully small. They’re really nice rocks, but seem tiny even for shohin. I have a selection of rocks I’ll be starting projects on this spring but even the smallest shohin rock is still about 5” tall

 

[Pitoon]

Nice project, good to see you put your seedlings to good use.

I am wondering.. What size trees are you aiming for? Rocks seem to shrink over time as the tree grows..

Thanks! The plan is for mame with the smaller rocks. The one larger rock most likely shohin as I think mame size will look out of proportion. My concerns is if the roots grow tight against the rock surface.

 

[Pitoon]

Those small trees have ideal roots for ROR. You should be able to get some good root arrangement with those.
I am surprised that these are still so small given they are a couple of years old and have had roots out the bottom of the pot.

Only a few of the photos have come up for me. Is that just here or are others having trouble with the pics?

When I took these cuttings a couple years ago they were about about 4". They grew just not that fast, they were stripped of their leaves several times by the roaming deer population. I think that put them back.

I've noticed that as well sometimes pics don't show up.

 

[Pitoon]

A snippet out of a good book...on ROR.

Looked like good material of roots they offered up for this project too!

View attachment 359396View attachment 359397

Great pics, I will look into that book.

 

[Pitoon]

@Shibui I can see all the pics.

some of those rocks seem awfully small. They’re really nice rocks, but seem tiny even for shohin. I have a selection of rocks I’ll be starting projects on this spring but even the smallest shohin rock is still about 5” tall

The larger rock in the picture will go shohin sized, the rest will be mame sized. I will be making pots for each once they are ready.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Great pics, I will look into that book.

Watch...sometimes you can find it reasonable. But it tends to be expensive.

 

[Pitoon]

Watch...sometimes you can find it reasonable. But it tends to be expensive.

With you saying that I'm automatically assuming this book must be out of print.

 

[Cadillactaste]

With you saying that I'm automatically assuming this book must be out of print.

It is indeed out of print.

 

[leatherback]

With you saying that I'm automatically assuming this book must be out of print.

229 on the zone..

Mission of Transformation: Robert Steven: 9789799920331: Amazon.com: Books

Mission of Transformation [Robert Steven] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Mission of Transformation

www.amazon.com

 

[Pitoon]

229 on the zone..

Mission of Transformation: Robert Steven: 9789799920331: Amazon.com: Books

Mission of Transformation [Robert Steven] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Mission of Transformation

www.amazon.com

LOL............the Zone can keep holding it. I would rather spend that kind of money on a Naka Tech 1 book.

 

[Shibui]

All photos showing this evening. Probably restricted internet speeds yesterday.

You have some great potential small trees in that batch. I am glad to see you starting a few. ROR adds much more complexity to getting a good result - the roots need to develop well on the rock, roots need to look attractive as they run down the rock, trunk needs to have a good exit angle from roots and rock and all that is before the normal problems of getting a trunk with good bends and good branches at the right places. I figure that less than half of all ROR started will turn out OK and even fewer of those will be really great.
Growing shohin sized trees adds even more issues. It does not take long for a tree to get away and grow too big for the rock or for shohin size. I have 5 that are a year ahead of these so I also have fingers crossed for some good results.

Look forward to seeing how these develop.

 

[Pitoon]

All photos showing this evening. Probably restricted internet speeds yesterday.

You have some great potential small trees in that batch. I am glad to see you starting a few. ROR adds much more complexity to getting a good result - the roots need to develop well on the rock, roots need to look attractive as they run down the rock, trunk needs to have a good exit angle from roots and rock and all that is before the normal problems of getting a trunk with good bends and good branches at the right places. I figure that less than half of all ROR started will turn out OK and even fewer of those will be really great.
Growing shohin sized trees adds even more issues. It does not take long for a tree to get away and grow too big for the rock or for shohin size. I have 5 that are a year ahead of these so I also have fingers crossed for some good results.

Look forward to seeing how these develop.

I would like to see your group if you don't mind posting. My plan for these is to have the wrap and sphagnum moss removed by the end of next year's growing season (year 2) by slowly hardening off the roots little by little. By the end of next year's growing season the roots should be harden off but still pliable/movable. The plan is to then 'if possible' reposition any roots and then rewrap them really tight against the rock with electrical tape. At the end of the following year's growing season (year 3) the tape will be removed and the roots reassessed. I believe to set the foundation for the mame sized should be done by the 5yr mark, and then another 5yrs to refine it. I am aiming for 1-2cm trunk size for the mame's.

 

[Cadillactaste]

LOL............the Zone can keep holding it. I would rather spend that kind of money on a Naka Tech 1 book.

See...the late Jim Lewis...really wasn't fond of his books. He and I spoke books being book nerds...I've seen Naka go for $45 in a lot of books...and I didn't bid. I think his opinion...swayed me on what books I did choose for my library. But I get it...Naka is like the Holy Grail. I know to many who sold them off. He just said, they were more compiled notes...and not really written in book form. So...it can be confusing following.

 

[leatherback]

He just said, they were more compiled notes...and not really written in book form

Which is what I like. It is a peek into a way of thinking rather than someone trying to tell a narrative

 

[Cadillactaste]

Which is what I like. It is a peek into a way of thinking rather than someone trying to tell a narrative

I guess, I can see your point looking at it that way...he said for a newbie...it was not a book he would recommend.

Would you agree it's easier to follow...knowing the process to a degree? Or do you disagree with his saying it would confuse newbies...by not being in book format?

I sort of...fallen under poor love of the books, from being discouraged not to waist my money on it. That I've never really even desired to add it to my collection. Even though it's considered the Holy Grail. I do have his book Even Monkeys Fall Out of Trees. I find I have always loved idioms. And this sort of runs hand in hand. This is just a whimsical book...NOTHING remotely to help one with learning the techniques of bonsai.

Even Monkeys Fall Out Of Trees...the wit and wisdom of John Naka

Even Monkeys Fall Out Of Trees: John Naka’s collection of Japanese proverbs. This is a book I’ve heard mentioned but never had the chan...

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