Treeblers verses 'Taters...

[Underdog]

All this potato talk made me plant one. Not a fan of them but don't have one yet either. I'm sure this Holly isn't the best choice but didn't like where it was in my landscape.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Anybody else.think Forsoothe = Bolero?

No chance.

Damn Al, you @Smoke 'd that snowflake fast!
Lol!

seems the OP flaked too...

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Maarten,

introduce Jelle to a proper Zelkova cultivar.
See if he has a change of heart.
Warm Weather.
Anthony

I don't think he will but it is worth trying
Although I doubt if he needs any introduction!

 

[Doug J]

I would dilute it 50/50. Let it dry. That might take a day or two. If it’s not white enough, you can do it again at 50/50 or raise the proportion of LS to water. The problem is putting it on too strong. Then it looks like paint. It will eventually wear off, but it takes a while.

Hey, some like it straight. But at least wet the deadwood first so it will soak in.

Ok, thank you. It's on a deciduous so I don't want it too white. I then plan to put Minwax wood hardener on top of it. (after it dries) This on the recommendation of the grower (Brent @ evergreen) The goal is preservation more than aesthetic.

 

[Paulpash]

Ok, thank you. It's on a deciduous so I don't want it too white. I then plan to put Minwax wood hardener on top of it. (after it dries) This on the recommendation of the grower (Brent @ evergreen) The goal is preservation more than aesthetic.

If you are going to put lime sulfur on deciduous add some Indian ink or coffee grounds (depending on color preference) - it mutes the tone quite markedly. Very few deciduous look 'right' with LS.

 

[Doug J]

If you are going to put lime sulfur on deciduous add some Indian ink or coffee grounds (depending on color preference) - it mutes the tone quite markedly. Very few deciduous look 'right' with LS.

I've read that before, and I will do that. No shortage of coffee grounds in my house. Thank you both.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Raise of hands...at who gives a rats @ss what another thinks of the trees that they draw inspiration from and are working. Bonsai is about finding the material that brings ones passion out for the hobby. Member joined in 2019... certainly isn't getting my panties in a twist. ??

I GOT YOUR POTATO!!! I finally get the other threads now. ? My personal taste of what's on my bench...is not hindered on another's opinion of it. It seems this thread was directed towards a specific member...which, if that's how it is...I don't play well with others who fall into such small mindedness.

 

[leatherback]

View attachment 235965

Bonsai Encounters of the Third Kind !!!

 

[Adair M]

Both credible plantings, and not 'Taters. They may once have been, but are not now. 'Taters are wider than tall and that is why they are not artful, graceful, or tree-like. Some people still like 'Taters, but not many.

By your description, no one would like this tree:



I’m afraid that your perception of what other people think is a good bonsai isn’t accurate.

 

[Dav4]

By your description, no one would like this tree:

View attachment 236087

I’m afraid that your perception of what other people think is a good bonsai isn’t accurate.

Exactly... and he calls you and others too rigid and disagreeable...

 

[Forsoothe!]

By your description, no one would like this tree:

View attachment 236087

I’m afraid that your perception of what other people think is a good bonsai isn’t accurate.

So, if I speak for everybody else, where do you fit in? Maybe, I don't speak for anybody else but myself. This tree is a superior example of bonsai by any standard. I don't like it as much as if it were tree-like, but other than that, it's a great 'Tater.

 

[Adair M]

So, if I speak for everybody else, where do you fit in? Maybe, I don't speak for anybody else but myself. This tree is a superior example of bonsai by any standard. I don't like it as much as if it were tree-like, but other than that, it's a great 'Tater.

You stated, “Some people might like ‘Taters, but not many”.

I didn't make it up. Look at what you said in Post 54.

I know you’ve been doing bonsai for a while. But the number of years is meaningless. I feel that you have limited exposure to high level bonsai. If all you’ve ever seen is local, you really have a limited view of what is possible.

My trees are pretty good. I know of others who have better trees. Few of my trees are “Kokufu quality”. A couple are. But, I know that I don’t know everything there is the know about bonsai. Which is the fun part. Learning. And teaching others.

You said you teach beginner classes to beginners. I do it differently. I teach everyone the most advanced techniques I know. Yes, I teach bonsai professionally. I bring examples of my personal trees when I teach so that the students can see the end result they should strive for.

I think that if you were to travel to see a couple of the large regional and/or National shows, it would open your eyes to what a quality bonsai is.

 

[Forsoothe!]

You stated, “Some people might like ‘Taters, but not many”.

I didn't make it up. Look at what you said in Post 54.

I know you’ve been doing bonsai for a while. But the number of years is meaningless. I feel that you have limited exposure to high level bonsai. If all you’ve ever seen is local, you really have a limited view of what is possible.

My trees are pretty good. I know of others who have better trees. Few of my trees are “Kokufu quality”. A couple are. But, I know that I don’t know everything there is the know about bonsai. Which is the fun part. Learning. And teaching others.

You said you teach beginner classes to beginners. I do it differently. I teach everyone the most advanced techniques I know. Yes, I teach bonsai professionally. I bring examples of my personal trees when I teach so that the students can see the end result they should strive for.

I think that if you were to travel to see a couple of the large regional and/or National shows, it would open your eyes to what a quality bonsai is.

Let me put this into words that even you can understand: My dislike of 'Taters has nothing to do with whatever level I have attained. The old cliche, "There's no accounting for taste" is often used pejoratively, but is just a flat statement that means just what it says. Each individual comes to an affinity or dislike of something based upon their whole preceding life. We are all different. I come to bonsai as a serious gardener for 40 years. I had difficulty accepting trees with deadwood because in gardening visible deadwood is the mark of a lazy gardener. Now, I like some, but only if it is "beautiful", as I see and define "beautiful". What other people think is meaningless to me. The degree of difficulty in creating deadwood cuts no ice with me. I don't know why anyone would like 'Taters. Degree of difficulty, age, price tag, whatever, means nothing to me. I'm pretty sure there are forms of bonsai you don't like, those that are the product of clip & grow for sure. That doesn't offend me even though a large majority of my trees are just that. You are a product of your history. If part of that history is an anal retentive slavish adherence to the Japanese rules and definitions, that doesn't bother me either.
You've bought the party line, I haven't. Insinuating that if I were better educated I would like 'Taters is not going to influence me, or anybody like me. And, the people out there on the margin aren't going to be convinced either. It's a matter of personal taste, like colors. I like brown, someone else likes blue. Which color is prettier? Which color is superior?
Who is to say?

 

[Cadillactaste]

Trolling and back peddling...

The greatest thing about this hobby is that there are several styles for everyone...and not all have to be for all. It's when one lays their own thought/opinion as written in stone...is where the line in the sand is drawn.

I'm over this...and the OP. My trees are to much for his sensibilities anyways. ? so no loss.

 

[Adair M]

Let me put this into words that even you can understand: My dislike of 'Taters has nothing to do with whatever level I have attained. The old cliche, "There's no accounting for taste" is often used pejoratively, but is just a flat statement that means just what it says. Each individual comes to an affinity or dislike of something based upon their whole preceding life. We are all different. I come to bonsai as a serious gardener for 40 years. I had difficulty accepting trees with deadwood because in gardening visible deadwood is the mark of a lazy gardener. Now, I like some, but only if it is "beautiful", as I see and define "beautiful". What other people think is meaningless to me. The degree of difficulty in creating deadwood cuts no ice with me. I don't know why anyone would like 'Taters. Degree of difficulty, age, price tag, whatever, means nothing to me. I'm pretty sure there are forms of bonsai you don't like, those that are the product of clip & grow for sure. That doesn't offend me even though a large majority of my trees are just that. You are a product of your history. If part of that history is an anal retentive slavish adherence to the Japanese rules and definitions, that doesn't bother me either.
You've bought the party line, I haven't. Insinuating that if I were better educated I would like 'Taters is not going to influence me, or anybody like me. And, the people out there on the margin aren't going to be convinced either. It's a matter of personal taste, like colors. I like brown, someone else likes blue. Which color is prettier? Which color is superior?
Who is to say?

Part of what happens when a person becomes more educated in something us they learn to appreciate the subtleties and nuances in the subject matter that they were oblivious of before.

Such as your statement about deadwood. Dead wood isn’t particularly difficult to create. I’ll be honest with you, in the past, I wasn’t a fan of the white deadwood on junipers because we don’t have trees with that kind of deadwood around here where I live. But once I started traveling to California, I saw many bonsai with deadwood, and I started familiarizing myself with it, the effect it has on the styling and such. But what really sealed the deal, was a hiking expedition up into the Sierra Nevada, and seeing the 1000 year old trees up close and personal! That deadwood isn’t man made! It’s 100% natural, and far more intricate than can ever be created by any man made technique! It was an epiphany! My view had changed from being tolerant of deadwood, to becoming a fan! Maybe even a Connoisseur!

This change in my viewpoint was entirely due to becoming educated in the Ins and outs of natural deadwood. Traveling out of my comfort zone, seeing and experiencing new environments. Working with unfamiliar species. This only happened maybe 5 years ago. After 40 years of working with bonsai, I discovered a whole new aspect I had previously ignored! (Mind you, I still choose to ignore tropical bonsai! Lol!!! Not that I don’t think they’re beautiful - no, I don’t want to have to have a greenhouse and all that entails!)

As for clip and grow, that’s the way I primarily grow my zelkova. I have no issue with clip and grow. (You can’t do JBP using only clip and grow.). However, I think those who want to do clip and grow exclusively are handicapping themselves unnecessarily. There are times my zelkova benefit from a bit of wire.

You see, you think I’m narrow minded. Hardly. I’m very open to new information. I have learned far more about bonsai in the past 5 years than the previous 40 years combined! And I hope to continue to learn new stuff at that same pace.

Oh, your comment about how in Detroit, they say they don’t make ‘em like they used to... think about that, would you??? Didn’t most of the big Detroit automakers go bankrupt a couple years ago? The Japanese, the Germans, the Koreans pretty much kicked their butts! If it weren’t for pickup trucks, they’d be totally out of business! Ford says they’re gonna stop making sedans? Now, I like “made in America” as much as the next guy. I drive a Tesla. The MOST “made in America” vehicle possible. But, unless Detroit learns some new tricks, they’re dead men walking. You might want to think about that...

 

[amcoffeegirl]

When I started I wanted to clip and grow exclusively- because I was afraid to use wire.
Once I learned of the possibilities then I wanted to use wire. We (people) just don’t know a good thing until it’s tried.
I still need a lot of practice but it will come.

 

[my nellie]

Bonsai Encounters of the Third Kind !!!

Where's Bolero?

 

[Cadillactaste]

Where's Bolero?

You think he is the one and the same? An IP address would tell all. Just saying...

 

[rockm]

Let me put this into words that even you can understand: My dislike of 'Taters has nothing to do with whatever level I have attained. The old cliche, "There's no accounting for taste" is often used pejoratively, but is just a flat statement that means just what it says. Each individual comes to an affinity or dislike of something based upon their whole preceding life. We are all different. I come to bonsai as a serious gardener for 40 years. I had difficulty accepting trees with deadwood because in gardening visible deadwood is the mark of a lazy gardener. Now, I like some, but only if it is "beautiful", as I see and define "beautiful". What other people think is meaningless to me. The degree of difficulty in creating deadwood cuts no ice with me. I don't know why anyone would like 'Taters. Degree of difficulty, age, price tag, whatever, means nothing to me. I'm pretty sure there are forms of bonsai you don't like, those that are the product of clip & grow for sure. That doesn't offend me even though a large majority of my trees are just that. You are a product of your history. If part of that history is an anal retentive slavish adherence to the Japanese rules and definitions, that doesn't bother me either.
You've bought the party line, I haven't. Insinuating that if I were better educated I would like 'Taters is not going to influence me, or anybody like me. And, the people out there on the margin aren't going to be convinced either. It's a matter of personal taste, like colors. I like brown, someone else likes blue. Which color is prettier? Which color is superior?
Who is to say?

ya know, this post has some very valid points, but why start it off with such condescension, then shift to insults.

"Let me put this into word even you can understand" Really? you really think you're standing up to bonsai gods, or just behaving like a four year old?

Only a handful of people out there on the margin think like you. Most don't think like you at all. Believe me, I (and probably many others here) COME from those "margins." You don't speak for anyone but yourself. We marginal folks simply value education and don't like to remain ignorant, much less brag about being ignorant--If I bragged about not wanting to learn my Texas-born schoolteacher grandmother would have hit me with a frying pan. We marginal people are very capable of learning new things.

I have no idea who you think you're talking about when you say all this BS, but you seem to think those that have decent trees (that are mostly waaaay above the quality of yours BECAUSE they have owners willing to learn and not get stuck in a 25-year long loop of error) are rich snobs out to put something over on ignorant rubes. It's not only untrue, but insulting. They simply have a thirst to learn and inquisitive minds and their WORK on the trees shows that.

"What other people think is meaningless to me. The degree of difficulty in creating deadwood cuts no ice with me. I don't know why anyone would like 'Taters. Degree of difficulty, age, price tag, whatever, means nothing to me"

I think you care a great deal about what others think of you...

And as for the stump deal, I'm not a big fan of them either, but I understand the work that goes into them and why people like them.

 

[Dav4]

ya know, this post has some very valid points, but why start it off with such condescension, then shift to insults.

"Let me put this into word even you can understand" Really? you really think you're standing up to bonsai gods, or just behaving like a four year old?

Only a handful of people out there on the margin think like you. Most don't think like you at all. Believe me, I (and probably many others here) COME from those "margins." You don't speak for anyone but yourself. We marginal folks simply value education and don't like to remain ignorant, much less brag about being ignorant--If I bragged about not wanting to learn my Texas-born schoolteacher grandmother would have hit me with a frying pan. We marginal people are very capable of learning new things.

I have no idea who you think you're talking about when you say all this BS, but you seem to think those that have decent trees (that are mostly waaaay above the quality of yours BECAUSE they have owners willing to learn and not get stuck in a 25-year long loop of error) are rich snobs out to put something over on ignorant rubes. It's not only untrue, but insulting. They simply have a thirst to learn and inquisitive minds and their WORK on the trees shows that.

"What other people think is meaningless to me. The degree of difficulty in creating deadwood cuts no ice with me. I don't know why anyone would like 'Taters. Degree of difficulty, age, price tag, whatever, means nothing to me"

I think you care a great deal about what others think of you...

And as for the stump deal, I'm not a big fan of them either, but I understand the work that goes into them and why people like them.

A-freaking-men!!