The rare cultivar... and where you can buy them thread

[Bonsai Nut]

Sorry didn't mean to hijack this thread.

I understand your point. When I started this thread I was thinking about JM cultivars... and yet I immediately posted uncommon species. Even princess persimmon, though not uncommon, are uncommon to find for sale Some of us are tree hoarders.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

You know ..... that bonsai is about the appearance of the tree on the day displayed, cultivar does not matter at all. At least in theory. Rare or not should never be considered in judging bonsai. A tree is solely judged on its appearance at the time of judging. Only after the tree excels in appearance categories should its history be considered at all.

In the context of judging an exhibition, i would tend to agree. On the other hand, in the context of organizing an exhibition, a rare species or cultivar might by a significant reason why a tree is admitted — i know that variety is something Mr. Valavanis has sought.

So in other words, as far as exhibitions go a ‘rare cultivar’ might be less important for winning a show but more important getting into a show?

Just making conversation - i’m in total agreement with you i think

A different kind of response: as somebody with no intention to display a tree in a formal judged exhibition, and with a great interest in collecting and creating cultivars, there are times when i will sacrifice appearance, as you say, in the place of working with a cultivar that i simply find interesting (e.g. Hogyoku maple) — in that case i’m still doing ‘bonsai’, but i’m just doing it for myself

 

[Piedmont Bonsai]

5 gallon deshojos

Acer palmatum corallinum 'Deshojo'(DESHOJO UPRIGHT JAPANESE MAPLE)

www.soonerplantfarm.com

 

[Rivian]

creating cultivars

If you were to create a thread on this, to the extent youre willing to share your considerations, that would be highly interesting.

5 gallon deshojos

I dont know how it is in the USA but here this cultivar has reached just about every significant JM seller by now.

About Benichidori, dont worry about it too much. Its not the be-all-and-end-all.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

If you were to create a thread on this, to the extent youre willing to share your considerations, that would be highly interesting.

It’s a very long and mostly uninteresting process. There isn’t much to document either in the form of photos (it’s all just tags and excel sheets for now). You isolate a few trees and protect them from pollen cross contamination, pray they flower at compatible times (having a few options is key, as opposed to counting on just 2 cultivars), manually polinate, harvest seed, and then wait 5-10 years to eventually observe mostly underwhelming results with the hopeful exception of a handful that stand out among the group. For Diospryos rhombifolia and Prunus mume i have cultivars i have initiated this process with and continue to do others, but who knows when i will know whether or not i suceeded and whether or not it was worth the effort. I’ll say it’s not just about fruit or flower shape/color. I have a few ‘goals’ such as, for example, getting a nanko Ume that flowers later in the season so they can be grown in outdoor orchards in Canada. It’s a terribly boring thing to do until you ‘suceeed’, and even then i’m working with species so phenotypically diverse already that making anything truly ‘new’ is somewhat of a banal exercise to begin with.

The results are perhaps more quickly observed when working with cuttings, but true confirmation can take forever, and the number of variables one can play with are far more restricted. For example, consistently taking cuttings from vertically growing branches of a kiyo hime japanese maple (orthotropic cuttings) as opposed to cuttings from the more dominant lateral branches (plagiotropic cuttings) may result in differences in growth habits long term, but whether those differences will be observable at all and then also hold as the plant matures and is subsequently propagated is something that requires infinite time for largely unsatisfying results except in rare exceptions

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

For European hoarders I can recommend
Pflanzmich.de

They have a lot of different cultivars of just about everything.

 

[ChristianDGreat]

Do anyone know if theres a dwaft liquidambar orientalis?

 

[andrewiles]

Pat at https://www.garden-treasures.com/ has lots of seedlings from Alan's Gold available. They're not on the website, but if you reach out to him via the contact info he'll send you pics, etc. I just ordered some. Like any seedlings these will be variable, so it's a gamble. It appears they all have yellow/orange spring color, though finding out if any bark up is probably a few years away.

Tagging @Piedmont Bonsai and @Dan W. since I saw you both liked the parent cultivar.

 

[ShadyStump]

Would this be the place for local native species that aren't generally available, or is that best in a separate thread?

 

[Dan W.]

Anyone interested in a "group buy" for beni chidori next spring send me a message.

Also, I asked Matt from Mr. Maple, and they do have Beni chidori. If enough of us keep pestering them I think they will work harder to produce it. That happened with Deshojo. I think they had prioritized other newer cultivars but Deshojo sold so well that it's now one of their top sellers. They will be grafts of course, but at least we can get parent trees to begin propagating when they release it.

 

[unlucky__madman]

I ship beni chidori (and seigen) to most states in the USA, completely legally.

Having invested over a decade into acquiring beni chidori, i don’t mind a shameless self-promotion here if it means helping others get their hands on the cultivar

Do you have any other benichidori or seijen available? I would even take cuttings if possible. I'm in Texas

 

[andrewiles]

Acer palmatum 'Seigen' currently available at Maplestone. Probably gone in about 10 seconds...

Seigen

Acer palmatum 'Seigen' An upright-growing Japanese Maple with small leaves. 'Seigen' is a very special tree. The spring color is bright pink or pink-orange changing to green with rose highlights in summer. The fall color is vivid orange-yellow. This variety is very popular for bonsai work...

maplestoneornamentals.com

 

[unlucky__madman]

Acer palmatum 'Seigen' currently available at Maplestone. Probably gone in about 10 seconds...

Seigen

Acer palmatum 'Seigen' An upright-growing Japanese Maple with small leaves. 'Seigen' is a very special tree. The spring color is bright pink or pink-orange changing to green with rose highlights in summer. The fall color is vivid orange-yellow. This variety is very popular for bonsai work...

maplestoneornamentals.com

Thanks for the heads up

 

[unlucky__madman]

Acer palmatum "Alan's Gold's" seedlings currently available at Garden Treasures, they're not grafted, but I'm not sure if they're grown from cuttings or seed, though. Thought I'd share:

Alan's gold seedlings

 

[leatherback]

Acer palmatum "Alan's Gold's" seedlings currently available at Garden Treasures, they're not grafted, but I'm not sure if they're grown from cuttings or seed, though. Thought I'd share:

Alan's gold seedlings

They are seedlings, as specified in the name and add..?
So they are also not A Palmatum Alan's Gold, for people that buy them; They are just A Palmatum, with probably pretty decent color on them.

 

[19Mateo83]

They are seedlings, as specified in the name and add..?
So they are also not A Palmatum Alan's Gold, for people that buy them; They are just A Palmatum, with probably pretty decent color on them.

look at all that genetic variation.

 

[Mats Hagström]

For seeds I recommend checking https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/yucca-rigida

They are in Germany and are very good.

For importing seeds to the US you need a seed import permit which is simple to obtain. USPS has gotten very good at catching seeds in packages. Confiscation is common without permit.

For genetics I visit my local arboretum often and sometimes find small branch tips that have “fallen off” trees. Learning how to graft is an essential skill. I managed to “find” eight different cultivars of crabapple last month and they are all budding out on a single tree. This tree is designated as a carrier of genetic diversity.

Like a university admissions panel.

I now have the genetics and can harvest scion in the future, grow cuttings or eventually air layer off the grafted branches.

Mats

This is a cotyledon of a purple beech as it’s changing color with slight technological enhancement.

 

[Veebs]

Pat at https://www.garden-treasures.com/ has lots of seedlings from Alan's Gold available. They're not on the website, but if you reach out to him via the contact info he'll send you pics, etc. I just ordered some. Like any seedlings these will be variable, so it's a gamble. It appears they all have yellow/orange spring color, though finding out if any bark up is probably a few years away.

Tagging @Piedmont Bonsai and @Dan W. since I saw you both liked the parent cultivar.

View attachment 536194

What was the parent? I haven’t been able to find background.

 

[andrewiles]

What was the parent? I haven’t been able to find background.

The parent of Alan's Gold? I'm not sure. Pat told me it was introduced 15 years ago and was a seedling found by a friend of his. That's all I've heard.

 

[Gabler]

I'm on the hunt for small-leaf and dwarf cultivars of Acer rubrum. The three I'm most interested in are 'Autumn Flame' (not to be confused with 'Autumn Blaze'), 'Globosum', and 'Gerling', but I'm open to other suggestions.