HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
I’ve found successful results searching specific species “Native Distribution Maps“ as well..
Maybe that could help you, also.
Maybe that could help you, also.
The Five Year "Native Tree, Native Pot" Challenge!
- Thread starter zanduh
- Start date
LittleDingus
Omono
I’ve found successful results searching specific species “Native Distribution Maps“ as well..
Maybe that could help you, also.
I've found that Googling "<species> native range" works pretty well. Often, one of the higher up results from that search will be
USDA Plants Database
which I've found to be very helpful...helpful enough that you can probably just start there if you wanted.
What I've found harder to lookup is "native trees for <state>" or similar. Those lists are harder to find and they often contain trees that will grow in that area but are not necessarily native to that are. Even looking up various regional conservation sites...Missouri Department of Conservation, for example...that sell "native" trees for reforestation, etc...isn't reliable. I've found many of those species to be introduced species that grow well in that area and provide various benefits that outweigh any of their negatives.
It can make it challenging to settle on something. Several times I've thought: "hey, finally a chance to grow this tree I see everywhere!" only to find out it's everywhere because of westward expansion and NOT because it naturally grows here
Gabler
Masterpiece
How can a tree be both native and introduced to the same county? I'm clearly missing something.
Gabler
Masterpiece
Never mind. I got it. Multiple cultivars or sub-species.
stu929
Shohin
I did exactly what you said, trees native to PAI've found that Googling "<species> native range" works pretty well. Often, one of the higher up results from that search will be
USDA Plants Database
plants.sc.egov.usda.gov
which I've found to be very helpful...helpful enough that you can probably just start there if you wanted.
What I've found harder to lookup is "native trees for <state>" or similar. Those lists are harder to find and they often contain trees that will grow in that area but are not necessarily native to that are. Even looking up various regional conservation sites...Missouri Department of Conservation, for example...that sell "native" trees for reforestation, etc...isn't reliable. I've found many of those species to be introduced species that grow well in that area and provide various benefits that outweigh any of their negatives.
It can make it challenging to settle on something. Several times I've thought: "hey, finally a chance to grow this tree I see everywhere!" only to find out it's everywhere because of westward expansion and NOT because it naturally grows here
LittleDingus
Omono
In the US especially, many plant species appear to be "native" but aren't. They were introduced to an area either by intention or accident.
For example: Osage Orange is a prolific tree in my area. It grows everywhere. It's not "invasive" because it's not harmful to the region and doesn't crowd out historically native species. But, prior to 1700 or so, it was not found in my area. It was introduced to my area during the westward expansion and colonization of the US. Farmers found the species made a good natural barrier and brought it with them to grow large expanses of "fence" to keep in livestock. The cut wood was also used for fencing and building material. So, the only reason that species grows within 700 miles of me is because man brought it here with them.
That breaks the spirit of the rules for this contest. It's what prevents someone outside California from growing a redwood just because one is planted in the landscape somewhere near them. The intent is the tree should be a native species to your immediate area that was not introduced by man prior to I think 1500. Prior to that, it's very difficult to determine if a species is now "native" because the Roman empire brought it with them
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
The trees around you (If you live in the USA.) are usually, predominantly, a blend of native trees and also introduced species which have “Normalized” (very bad term).. and in a decent amount of cases, became very vigorous.
(There are SUPER obvious exceptions to this “claim” I just made.. I don’t want to detail ALL of them)
My “assumed” native list, prior to rigorous investigation and help pf others, was much larger than The wisconsin native list actually WAS.
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Me and Dingus... hawking snowballs of info at the same time...In the US especially, many plant species appear to be "native" but aren't. They were introduced to an area either by intention or accident.
For example: Osage Orange is a prolific tree in my area. It grows everywhere. It's not "invasive" because it's not harmful to the region and doesn't crowd out historically native species. But, prior to 1700 or so, it was not found in my area. It was introduced to my area during the westward expansion and colonization of the US. Farmers found the species made a good natural barrier and brought it with them to grow large expanses of "fence" to keep in livestock. The cut wood was also used for fencing and building material. So, the only reason that species grows within 700 miles of me is because man brought it here with them.
That breaks the spirit of the rules for this contest. It's what prevents someone outside California from growing a redwood just because one is planted in the landscape somewhere near them. The intent is the tree should be a native species to your immediate area that was not introduced by man prior to I think 1500. Prior to that, it's very difficult to determine if a species is now "native" because the Roman empire brought it with them
Wha-Whaaa!
LittleDingus
Omono
I'm frustrated with the whole "work" thing...blowing off some stream
Sigh...but now I need to commute my ass back my "office" and start working again
stu929
Shohin
Trust me I'm not trying to find a work around, I'm just trying to find consistent information about what is native. I was looking at one list then HorseLover gave me another resource and there was a lot a variation. a shining example Bald Cypress. I never thought I would see that as a native species to PA but I saw a list that had it. While I need at the help I can get I want to adhere to the spirit of the competition. Sadly I have a dogwood I want to try use but I only know its a Dogwood (Not a Kousa). I know nothing else about it.I'm frustrated with the whole "work" thing...blowing off some stream
Sigh...but now I need to commute my ass back my "office" and start working again
I think @LittleDingus just meant he was frustrated with his work, and taking a break on here. Not saying anything about you personally.
stu929
Shohin
Really that was meant to be a general comment more than just quoting him. I have made the comment a few times about good sources to find out what is native to an area. Reason being while I love certain trees (Dogwood is my favorite) they may not be optimal for bonsai or a noob which I am. I would prefer to have something that I just have sitting around or can locally source but I suck at plant identification ( tried the apps and some provide 20 different matches to a picture). I'm trying to get better with plant ID. I was hoping to find a strong list of whats native and find corresponding images so when Im out I can get better at spotting them.I think @LittleDingus just meant he was frustrated with his work, and taking a break on here. Not saying anything about you personally.
Funny thing is in the other thread about ID someone put up a sweetgum and I knew it immediately because I could swear it was a maple and went to Phipps and saw it was in fact a sweetgum so I wont remember that one!
LittleDingus
Omono
As Carol noted...I was frustrated with the day job and @HorseloverFat and I kept typing basically the same responses: "hawking snowballs of info" as he put it
I'm not accusing anyone of trying to cheat! If anyone needs fake internet points that badly...have at them
There is some general frustration here in the US especially over which list to go with for thus contest. That's part of what I like/hate about this contest! It gives one a new appreciation for what "native" means!
stu929
Shohin
I know you weren't. I too am frustrated trying to establish what is native and what isn't. I have been trying very hard to get a list I'm comfortable with but everything seems to contradict each otherAs Carol noted...I was frustrated with the day job and @HorseloverFat and I kept typing basically the same responses: "hawking snowballs of info" as he put it
I'm not accusing anyone of trying to cheat! If anyone needs fake internet points that badly...have at them
There is some general frustration here in the US especially over which list to go with for thus contest. That's part of what I like/hate about this contest! It gives one a new appreciation for what "native" means!
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
Yes..it’s going to take some research and comparison.. I am JUST starting to get a true handle on MY state’s native trees and shrubs.... it’s a fun and informative “dive”.. whilst also being confusing and frustrating at times.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Have you considered wikipedia? Often info there is pretty accurate.
en.wikipedia.org
Not sure what they have used as their base but I am sure a few random checks will give an idea of validity.
Flora of the United States - Wikipedia
Not sure what they have used as their base but I am sure a few random checks will give an idea of validity.
Gabler
Masterpiece
As a peer reviewer, I’d like to add that Wikipedia has much higher standards for scholarship than a lot of peer review journals. “Academic” journals are products sold for money, so the research that’s included is the research people want to hear. Not necessarily the highest quality. Wikipedia is fully independent, so it has no agenda. It doesn’t have to contain sensationalist tabloid material to generate money.
Aaron the Great
Mame
Ok you talked me into joining up. Someone has to come in last 
. I feel lucky on the fact that the Cross Timbers, and most of Eastern Oklahoma fall within my zone. Right now I am looking at
American Elm Ulmus Americana
Eastern Red Cedar Juniperus virginiana
Black Jack Oak Cuercus Marilandica
Pecan Carya illinoinensis
Loblolly Pine Pinus Taeda
. I feel lucky on the fact that the Cross Timbers, and most of Eastern Oklahoma fall within my zone. Right now I am looking atAmerican Elm Ulmus Americana
Eastern Red Cedar Juniperus virginiana
Black Jack Oak Cuercus Marilandica
Pecan Carya illinoinensis
Loblolly Pine Pinus Taeda
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
stu929
Shohin
To be fair that spot is probably reserved for a noob. I'm starting to think this is a great reason to enter multiple times 
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