The fastest way to develop deciduous bonsai: Walter Pall's hedge pruning method explained

[Smoke]

More like whine.....

If your going to make the time to come to a bonsai discussion page and contribute, then have some effin trees to show you at least know what the hell your talking about. Showing plants in containers and grow pots and nursery cans is not bonsai, never will be. I have better stuff in grow containers than a lot here have in show pots and call them bonsai. Come on....

 

[sorce]

Can't do it. You have been here 9 years and have failed to show "one" bonsai yet. What the hell is the problem?

I have now tagged you AOC of BN!

What does my trees you fail to find have anything to do with you misleading folks about technique?

You do understand these are 2 different things right?

It's just not funny.

Sorce

 

[Paulpash]

Thank you. This is exactly what hedge pruning is. Actually it is not a training exercise at all. It should only be performed on trees that have a set branch structure already and are ready to be finely ramified.

View attachment 250780View attachment 250781View attachment 250782

So are you're saying it's a refinement technique AL? To build twigging? Just checking... Think carefully. I'm betting he won't be posting again on this thread...

 

[Smoke]

What does my trees you fail to find have anything to do with you misleading folks about technique?

You do understand these are 2 different things right?

It's just not funny.

Sorce

This post is a perfect example of your ignorance of bonsai ...and... technique.


If you wish to enlighten the forum about hedging maples or broadleaf trees you are more than welcome to share. It's always easier to throw stones at Trump...er.... I mean me, than it is to actually learn someone something.

Just type "hedging maple" in the search function and look at what comes up. Mostly posts by me and Bananaman. Lots of pictures and how it's done, correctly.

I challenge you or the OP to show us some trees that have been properly hedged over a few years and what they LOOKED like and what they look like now.

Put up or shut up I always say. I already know the answer.. so continue to sling mud...it's all you have.

 

[Paulpash]

Firstly, the title of this thread is "The fastest way to develop deciduous bonsai: Walter Pall's hedge pruning method explained". It isn't "Smoke's hedge pruning method" but you are very narcissistic and want it to be about "you" and your methods. I guess that's why you created your own thread lol.

So let's take your interpretation that WALTER PALL'S hedge pruning approach is a refinement technique. The original article states quite clearly that:

Growth is sheared back twice a year - once in mid May and then again in early August. It uses STRONG GROWTH to "close wounds", "thicken branches", "induce backbudding" and to significantly "improve the nebari". Clearly, he is building structure - NOT TWIGGING OR REFINEMENT. The growth would be far too coarse and far too thick.

For you to post twiggy, refined trees and to say that Walter hedges maples with this as the primary goal is just plainly wrong.

I look forward to your response actually addressing the goal of WALTER PALL'S methods and arguing against why his technique is not based around development, as opposed to refinement. I expect quotes from the actual article (as I have done) because it's very clear you either have not read it or you cannot interpret it correctly.

Unfortunately, what I will get, I suspect, in response will be either

1. "Show me your hedge pruned tree" - the typical Kepler reply used as a defensive mechanism used when you're clearly wrong.

2. Silence!

3. YOUR interpretation of the Smoke hedge pruning technique.

So c'mon Al, actually formulate an argument based solely on the article's goals. Try and avoid personal attacks like the one on @sorce.

 

[sorce]

I don't use Hackniques.

My trees stay on their pages.

They have never been Hacked.

I mean hedged.

Sorce

 

[Bonsai toto]

humble opinion..don't judge me...the method is quick(depend on luck) and random growth, finger cross hoping will ramify/backbud...no control.. good for ones that have many tree and only for that one (or two) particular shape.
End result...a luxury 'problem' as many sub branch/twig to choose from to get the final design and ramification.

Think back again...where is the fun of having the full control of your tree from having the first branch...secondary branch..untill fine twig rather than random...step by step, is the best move if u have the time and enjoy the process of it...

afterall...its all the same regarding which method... different method..but same term..cut back

cheers.

 

[Smoke]

humble opinion..don't judge me...the method is quick(depend on luck) and random growth, finger cross hoping will ramify/backbud...no control.. good for ones that have many tree and only for that one (or two) particular shape.
End result...a luxury 'problem' as many sub branch/twig to choose from to get the final design and ramification.

Think back again...where is the fun of having the full control of your tree from having the first branch...secondary branch..untill fine twig rather than random...step by step, is the best move if u have the time and enjoy the process of it...

afterall...its all the same regarding which method... different method..but same term..cut back

cheers.

Show me? Show me your process, and what it produces. The proof is in the pictures. Talk is cheap.

Obviously you don't have a clue who I am. Everything I do in bonsai is well planned out from purchasing the material to how I work the tree. Unlike so many here that purchase and then come here begging on what to do next or "help me". I purchase with a tree in mind. It it already able to be seen in my mind before I even lay the money down.

My trees reflect work done to get to a place "I"want. I don't leave it to chance. I graft. I graft all the time. Maples, elms. When I want a branch someplace I don't wait for chance to bud there, I graft there.

 

[Smoke]

A chopped and grafted tree.



Then I began the hedging process to ramify a canopy.



The bottom line is, I have showed pictures of how I do it. You have a big mouth, show me what you got. Please show some befores and work done. I have been burned by picture stealing off the net before.

 

[Smoke]

Think back again...where is the fun of having the full control of your tree from having the first branch...secondary branch..untill fine twig rather than random...step by step, is the best move if u have the time and enjoy the process of it...

Now you have seen a tree from beginning to today.

Please explain the steps I left out in your opinion?

Please show me the left out primary, secondary and tertiary branching?

Please explain how random my process is?

I will wait patiently for your reply.

 

[Fabledabel]

Obviously you don't have a clue who I am. .

You have a big mouth, show me what you got.

Really unnecessary, ego feeding talk. No one is going to care who you are if you have to say stuff like that. This is a place for people of all skill levels to come and exchange information. A place of positive growth of this hobby. Not a place for you to come and pedal your ego.

 

[Lazylightningny]

Really unnecessary, ego feeding talk. No one is going to care who you are if you have to say stuff like that. This is a place for people of all skill levels to come and exchange information. A place of positive growth of this hobby. Not a place for you to come and pedal your ego.

Al @Smoke is one of our elder statesmen here. He is not afraid to call bullshit when he sees it. He never parrots bonsai wisdom that he read about. His advice is solid and comes from his own experience, and he always backs it up. I've learned a lot through listening to what he has to say. If you approach him with some respect, he's nice as pie to you. Although he may be wearing a pink thong. Watch out for that.

 

[Fabledabel]

Al @Smoke is one of our elder statesmen here. He is not afraid to call bullshit when he sees it. He never parrots bonsai wisdom that he read about. His advice is solid and comes from his own experience, and he always backs it up. I've learned a lot through listening to what he has to say. If you approach him with some respect, he's nice as pie to you. Although he may be wearing a pink thong. Watch out for that.

Since when is being civil prediated on getting respect? If you demand respect in order to level headed in your responses, that indicates some serious ego issues.

Even if what you say is true, take a look at the reply I quoted. Smoke replied "You obviously dont know who am" and "You have a big mouth" to this:

"humble opinion..don't judge me...the method is quick(depend on luck) and random growth, finger cross hoping will ramify/backbud...no control.. good for ones that have many tree and only for that one (or two) particular shape.
End result...a luxury 'problem' as many sub branch/twig to choose from to get the final design and ramification.

Think back again...where is the fun of having the full control of your tree from having the first branch...secondary branch..untill fine twig rather than random...step by step, is the best move if u have the time and enjoy the process of it...

afterall...its all the same regarding which method... different method..but same term..cut back

cheers."

That was a decent, well thought out, and RESPECTFUL post. Smokes response was something you would expect from a 15 year old getting after watching a few mirai videos. Not a seasoned veteran.

But point noted! I'm sure he does great work. But it's just hard to take someone seriously if they demand respect like a preteen... And wear pink underwear...

 

[Fabledabel]

@Fabledabel notice how nobody is "liking" any of the comments or taking sides? I haven't been around all that long, but long enough to know that it's best to stay out of things like this.

I see that you're new around here, and thought I would share some advice. I have been in your position before. Just let this thread fade away

Thanks. You're right

 

[Bonsai toto]

Show me? Show me your process, and what it produces. The proof is in the pictures. Talk is cheap.

Obviously you don't have a clue who I am. Everything I do in bonsai is well planned out from purchasing the material to how I work the tree. Unlike so many here that purchase and then come here begging on what to do next or "help me". I purchase with a tree in mind. It it already able to be seen in my mind before I even lay the money down.

My trees reflect work done to get to a place "I"want. I don't leave it to chance. I graft. I graft all the time. Maples, elms. When I want a branch someplace I don't wait for chance to bud there, I graft there.

lol..relax man..i'm not against you..just a general idea of what this thread is all about. haha...i didnt even highlight or against you from the start..why burn me. read carefully my post.

your way of making tree is exceptional with the picture and all... not even so call random...well planned out...u can say u hedge it...i call it cutting back to necessary part, more precise and does not sound random(hedge). good work by the way and the pic all. thanks for it.
none or my comments in previous post reflex you from the start. too sensitive...and be positive, and i am sorry if u feel like its for you. But surely you are the type of person on my second part of my previous post. well thought step by step and yet u felt like the otherway around . again sorry.

and lastly, i have my own picture to share...but its not about me or my work this thread is all about. i have shared my own work here in bonsai nut i my own thread... the one and many other i shared here in nut just the basic one. if you need more advance pic than what i already shared...pm me...
cheers...sit down and relax..have a beer

 

[sorce]

Amen....cuz mindless cutting with no after attention creates knuckle sandwiches that cant be remedied except for removal...

Have at it.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

It's always easier to throw stones at Trump...

And it's always fun.

 

[leatherback]

A place of positive growth of this hobby. Not a place for you to come and pedal your ego.

U sure?

 

[Underdog]

@Rafael Najmanovich has to be discouraged as yet another good thread goes...

 

[Smoke]

@Rafael Najmanovich has to be discouraged as yet another good thread goes...

This thread started as bull shit and still is.

The one thing I can't stand that happens a lot around here is people come here and think they know some shit, want to school everyone and then never show a supporting picture, never show a before and after, never show that they have done any of the shit they profess to be telling you that you should do.

Why does someone here need to explain Walter Pall's technique? Walter Pall is perfectly capable of telling everyone how it's done. If there is anyone that will show a picture series, it's Pall. Some of his threads will have 50 pictures of the same tree on ten stands and in differing light combinations, winterspringsummerfall.

Do any of you feel the need to go to another forum and explain how I trim a tree? I didn't think so.....