The Azalea Soil experiment

[Eric Group]

I mentioned in another thread about soil recently that I was working on this, so here are the pics and what I am doing... Gettin' My SCIENCE ON!

The three trees are each Miyuki Satsuki Azaleas. Root cuttings that were connected and when separated for this planting had almost identical roots it seemed, almost identical size, height, health.. All were repotted about 3-4 weeks ago and have not missed a beat, so I feel confident that my "risky" Fall repot was a success with all of them.. This is as close as I can get with living organisms to them being the same trees! I removed as much of the soil (perlite and peat to promote roots...) they were growing in as I could and planted them as follows:


The one on the left is in pretty much equal parts Akadama, pumice (regular pumice, not Kanuma) and lava. I did put a little extra lava across the top just as a top dressing to help hold the tree in the pot.. but that was a very thin layer..


Then I did one in 100% Kanuma. Nuff said, right?

And finally the "control"- this is my own recipe for "potting soil"- kind of like "Pro Mix", except Ia dd a little turface and some "soil conditioner" (tiny chunks of pine bark) with a tad bit of slow release organic ferts mixed in- the turface and helps keep the mix airy and a little heavier than JUST Peat and Perlite would be... I have been using a mix similar to this for about two years with azaleas (and every other tree I want to grow out) so I know it produces rapid growth and happy trees! That is why it is the "control"... I want to compare growth rates of the three in different mediums. I am sure this won't be an end of any arguments or discussions about soils, acidity.... Inorganic vs organic/ Akadama for Azaleas vs Kanuma... But I was just curious to see what the results would be so I am doing it. The pots are not exactly the same sizes and obviously the organic mix has more nutrient retention ability... I will have to offset by watering more and fertilizing more in the inorganic mixes...

I will try to report updates periodically as they develop

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

You should try one planted in aluminum wire clippings.

 

[Stickroot]

You should try one planted in aluminum wire clippings.

Do they like Aluminum Oxide?

 

[Robert E Holt]

It will be interesting to see if there is any appreciable reference in growth. What sort of metrics are you going to track?

 

[Stickroot]

Do they like Aluminum Oxide?

Aluminum Sulfate.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Aluminum Sulfate.

Fairly sure aluminum wire is neither, but instead is rather inert. Always thought it would be fun to try, but apparently not enough to actually do it.

 

[Stickroot]

Fairly sure aluminum wire is neither, but instead is rather inert. Always thought it would be fun to try, but apparently not enough to actually do it.

I agree, I was thinking of Aluminum Sulfate that Azaleas like.
So straight wire clippings? Nothing else?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I agree, I was thinking of Aluminum Sulfate that Azaleas like.
So straight wire clippings? Nothing else?

Your pick...how about half bark and half wire clippings as the "aggregate"?

 

[Stickroot]

Your pick...how about half bark and half wire clippings as the "aggregate"?

Worth a shot.

 

[Eric Group]

It will be interesting to see if there is any appreciable reference in growth. What sort of metrics are you going to track?

I am going to measure new growth extension and trunk girth, try to track which ones bloom the most and if there is any change in color or shape... These are young so they may not bloom this coming Spring.

 

[Jeremy]

I enjoy following experiments like this. Though, I'm sure some would argue your 'pro mix' is at an unfair disadvantage with the addition of slow release ferts

 

[Eric Group]

You should try one planted in aluminum wire clippings.

Al= Brian's Foemina

 

[Eric Group]

I enjoy following experiments like this. Though, I'm sure some would argue your 'pro mix' is at an unfair disadvantage with the addition of slow release ferts

Well, that is true I suppose, but every potting mix sold commercially has some sort of fertilizer added in, this is just my own mix... Kind of trying to emulate what a commercial potting mix might do for these trees... I pre-mix a big trash can full of this potting mix every couple months as needed, so I just scooped from that pre-made mix. I will fertilize the others with the same stuff in late winter to get them ready to perform in the Spring.

 

[0soyoung]

I am going to measure new growth extension and trunk girth, try to track which ones bloom the most and if there is any change in color or shape... These are young so they may not bloom this coming Spring.

• Are you measuring the extension of just the apical shoot, say, or of all new shoots?
• What were the trunk girths on 10/15?
• I don't see a color strip standard in the photos - how are you going to judge color change?

I note that the three pots are all different. How do you know that pot size/shape is as, if not more, important than the soil?

 

[Eric Group]

• Are you measuring the extension of just the apical shoot, say, or of all new shoots?
• What were the trunk girths on 10/15?
• I don't see a color strip standard in the photos - how are you going to judge color change?

I note that the three pots are all different. How do you know that pot size/shape is as, if not more, important than the soil?

I am planning to do this very subjectively and compare the pics for growth comparison... I am not trying to measure down to the millimeter... Just a general determination of "this one grew the best". Hope everyone understood the scientific comments was a joke?

They have not frown enough to note a measurable trunk expansion to this point.

The color and shape of the flowers will be judged by comparing them to each other when they bloom, not by comparing to pics taken today when the trees aren't in bloom... Not sure I follow.

I mentioned the pots were slightly different in size, but it is not extreme enough to cause a dramatic difference in growth IMO. That is how I know.

My hypothesis is that the "potting soil" tree will out perform the others... They almost always do when planted in a good potting soil (not some poisoned earth garbage you get for a dollar per 3 sq feet). This is not a study about the best soil to use for trees in Bonsai pots over the long term, this is to look at what is the best medium for developing young trees. Fast growth, easy care, health and vigor... Subjective stuff that can be very difficult to measure diffinitively beyond the good old "eye test"= that one looks the best so it is the winner! Hope that is good enough for everyone here... I am just curious so I slapped this together one day. If the study was funded by Harvard, I'd use ten (a hundred?) trees each in exactly the same sized pots, measured amounts of soil, dozens of different soils... strictly controlled environment... This study is just funded by my curiosity and that pays dick for a project budget!

 

[Andrew Robson]

If the study was funded by Harvard, I'd use ten (a hundred?) trees each in exactly the same sized pots, measured amounts of soil, dozens of different soils... strictly controlled environment... This study is just funded by my curiosity and that pays dick for a project budget!

I was going to add, I don't know how effective your experiment will be only using one tree in each soil. However, I'm glad to see people doing these experiments! I'll be curious to see what happens!

 

[Anthony]

We have coarse types Eric,

this is what works - peat moss and perlite, peat moss and 5 mm gravel. Lift every 2 or 3 years and trim the base, replace new soil. Oldest specimen - 35 years but it was a nursery plant before - source Lafayette, Louisiana.

About 5 / 6 years ago we got more colours other than wine / purple.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

You should try one planted in aluminum wire clippings.

After cutting miles of copper pipe on a bandsaw, you can pick up handfuls of copper shavings, I've been thinking of adding this to an Azalea, to really see what happens!

Good idea!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

So how are these coming along Eric?

 

[Harunobu]

The problem is more likely to be that variation you see between identical cuttings is bigger than the effect of the soil/substrate mix.


Also, in my experience the number of draining holes in the pot or plastic container you put it in is very important.
All three are in a different pot. Two of the same type, but of different sizes. Area changes with a second order power, volume with a third order. So that changes stuff also.