Talk to Me About Ground Growing

[n8]

This happened yesterday. Farmer buddy furrowed me a 200-foot row, I installed weed cloth and irrigation, and then I planted about 90 plants in various stages. Lots from previous years' seed (elm, pines and maples), some cuttings (flowering quince and elm) several air layers (maples and Chinese quince) and a few nursery plants or stuff I'd ordered from Brett in Clear Lake (crabs, flowering quince and some Seiju elms).

This is some of the finest dirt in North America, amended for 25 years through organic farming techniques. They'll have full sun, warm roots and good water. Fingers crossed!

 

[jeef16]

This happened yesterday. Farmer buddy furrowed me a 200-foot row, I installed weed cloth and irrigation, and then I planted about 90 plants in various stages. Lots from previous years' seed (elm, pines and maples), some cuttings (flowering quince and elm) several air layers (maples and Chinese quince) and a few nursery plants or stuff I'd ordered from Brett in Clear Lake (crabs, flowering quince and some Seiju elms).

This is some of the finest dirt in North America, amended for 25 years through organic farming techniques. They'll have full sun, warm roots and good water. Fingers crossed!

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lucky! go big or go home when presented with a field growing opportunity like that

 

[leatherback]

Good times!
Looking forward to seeing your nursery after first flush!

 

[BonsaiDTLA]

This happened yesterday. Farmer buddy furrowed me a 200-foot row, I installed weed cloth and irrigation, and then I planted about 90 plants in various stages. Lots from previous years' seed (elm, pines and maples), some cuttings (flowering quince and elm) several air layers (maples and Chinese quince) and a few nursery plants or stuff I'd ordered from Brett in Clear Lake (crabs, flowering quince and some Seiju elms).

This is some of the finest dirt in North America, amended for 25 years through organic farming techniques. They'll have full sun, warm roots and good water. Fingers crossed!

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So, at the time you started bonsai, whenever that was, did you ever imagine you'd be doing this oneday?

 

[leatherback]

So, at the time you started bonsai, whenever that was, did you ever imagine you'd be doing this oneday?

This thread should be the warning post for all coming in with their first tree!

 

[n8]

This thread should be the warning post for all coming in with their first tree!

Holy shit. Dead on.

Hey, it's win, win, win for everyone... I get a great spot, farmer buddy gets a friend coming out to visit and do work, and my wife gets a third of the plants out of the backyard.

 

[leatherback]

Holy shit. Dead on.

Hey, it's win, win, win for everyone... I get a great spot, farmer buddy gets a friend coming out to visit and do work, and my wife gets a third of the plants out of the backyard.

I was at my growing-out bed today. Looking at trunks. Realizing my benches are full. Left without digging a tree to take home.
Doing something wrong here.

Have you thought about that risk?

 

[n8]

Have you thought about that risk?

I have not! But I appreciate you bringing it up because now I am.

I have five benches at home, about 100 square feet of table space. That seems manageable to me. Right now, two of the tables are almost filled with bonsai. Trees that I enjoy a lot or are respectable enough to show to non-bonsai people, and they can recognize as, "Oh, yeah, that's pretty nice." The other three benches and several large pots on the ground are future projects.

In the future (5-10 years), I would like to have four benches of satisfying bonsai and one bench of future material. I imagine that much of my current future material will be culled, as well as this field material. I'll keep my favorites. Culled, in this definition means sold to other hobbyists, auctioned at club functions or tightened up in cheap pots and sold to non-bonsai through one of my nursery connections in town. The bonsai nursery in Sacramento also takes trade. They sure grow a lot of nice azaleas there...

I enjoy growing, propagating and cultivating so I reckon it's a good problem to have. That said, I do have a history of overwhelming myself.

 

[leatherback]

I enjoy growing, propagating and cultivating so I reckon it's a good problem to have. That said, I do have a history of overwhelming myself.

Guess we can shake hands
Just was outside taking measurements. 3 of my tabletops are rotted through, got a 8:30 appointment at the hardware store. And I caught myself wondering whether the rotted pieced could be cut into a few OK bits and add a section of tables.. (Currently at some 24 m / 72ft of tabletop, all 1-2ft wide, and the ground is not empty)

 

[n8]

I've been out to the farm a couple times since planting, first about a week after planting to make sure emitters were emitting where they were supposed to and then again today to add some fertilizer and compost. Everything is doing very well. All the crabapples went into shock, quickly flowered, recovered and are pushing growth. Elms are taking off, save one of my better prospects, which completely dried and died. Got plenty of water, I didn't overwork the roots and it was planted well; can't figure that one out. A. palms all looked weak at first, but are all recovering as of today and throwing shoots. Chinese and Japanese quince all seem to be building strength. As expected, the JBPs and the handful of shimpaku didn't blink.

I'll go back out in two weeks at dusk to spray foliage with some fish emulsion, kelp and a bit of copper, as recommended by my farmer buddy for transplants.

We're going to be kissing 90 degrees on Sunday. Starting to think I may need to construct some kind of shade structure for the maple seedlings over summer. They are grouped together, although the beefier airlayers are scattered.

 

[Maiden69]

I guess this will be late now, but using root bags will help you a lot. I have been doing a lot of research since I am going to make a small raised bed in my backyard and I heard Ryan mentioned that he had a podcast talking with the Telperion owner Chris Kirk and associate Gary woods about how they manage the trees at the farm, this was in 2018. There is a lot of good information there that I have not heard in any other place, and their trees were considered among the best ground grown material available.

Telperion Farms | Bonsai Mirai: Asymmetry

In this episode of Asymmetry, Ryan sits down with Telperion Farms owner Chris Kirk and his collaborator Gary Woods to dive into the intricacies of field-grown bonsai material. They discuss the nuances of timing, preparing the material before it’s planted in the field, adding movement, pruning...

bonsaimirai.podbean.com

 

[MrWunderful]

I guess this will be late now, but using root bags will help you a lot. I have been doing a lot of research since I am going to make a small raised bed in my backyard and I heard Ryan mentioned that he had a podcast talking with the Telperion owner Chris Kirk and associate Gary woods about how they manage the trees at the farm, this was in 2018. There is a lot of good information there that I have not heard in any other place, and their trees were considered among the best ground grown material available.

Telperion Farms | Bonsai Mirai: Asymmetry

In this episode of Asymmetry, Ryan sits down with Telperion Farms owner Chris Kirk and his collaborator Gary Woods to dive into the intricacies of field-grown bonsai material. They discuss the nuances of timing, preparing the material before it’s planted in the field, adding movement, pruning...

bonsaimirai.podbean.com

Just this year I am attempting about 50 trees of different species in grow bags, in ground. We will see how they grow compared to last year, where all were in ground with no bags, and free reign for the roots.

 

[n8]

using root bags

I will check that out. Thanks!

 

[n8]

Went out to the farm to handle a bit of weeding and fertilizing, and helped my farmer friend get his gopher cages installed for his marijuana. (He grows 20' tall weed plants and does some creative pruning. I'll get pictures in a few months.)

Lost a couple of two-year Japanese maples, likely due to rootwork or manipulating onto tiles. Worried about the upcoming heat and hoping the remainder will be able to put on enough roots to make it through summer. Elms (seedlings, cuttings and starts), pines (two-year seedlings), junipers (a few cuttings) and malus all cranking out growth. Some Japanese quince are doing better than others, but they're all growing. The three Chinese quince are set to explode. All of the older maples (all air layers) are looking good. Hoping to begin developing some quality nebari on them.

I hadn't planned on doing much cutback this year, but I probably will. Maybe in late summer...

Here's a few pictures:

 

[Shibui]

Looking good. A few loses is to be expected, especially in early years.
Remember that growth = thickening. Whether to prune will depend on your ultimate aim and size aims. You do not have to achieve thickness, taper and branching all in a single year. I let all my ground growing trees grow untouched all summer to get maximum growth out of the growing season. Pruning is done in dormant season when I can see the structure better.

 

[n8]

Pruning is done in dormant season when I can see the structure better.

Good advise. Really appreciate your input on this thread.

 

[n8]

I weeded in mid-June and went out again today to weed. Chaenomeles are in rough shape, most have been decimated (second picture). These were all cuttings from better/more established plants and I planting them in the field was an experiment that is just not going to work. Will dig out any survivors in fall or spring for backyard development in pots that can be shuffled into the shade. Japanese maples are looking rough, but are all holding on, save one big airlayer that is on it's last legs. Pines and little juniper cuttings are all growing strong. Cotoneaster, pyrancantha, forsythia and malus are all booming. Most growth goes to the elms, a combination of cuttings, seedlings and a couple seiju I got from Brent. Really impressed with the trunk caliper the seijus are putting on, especially when compared to the two in pots at my house.

We've had many days above 100 degrees, including a string of 111-ish days this past weekend. Farmer buddy planted a row of corn to help with some shade, but I'm realizing what will and won't thrive our here. This has been a very educational project so far and I'm looking forward to cutting back this winter and seeing what happens through the coming years.

 

[n8]

Bonus marijuana. Love the way he trims these like his fruit trees, for maximum harvest that can be done easily. The big cultivars are about six feet tall at this point and will be double that by harvest.

 

[Soup Dragon]

Tridents grow fast and are best lifted and root pruned each winter IMHO.

Can I zoom in on this sentence to ask a question about the timing of this operation?

You say "winter", not "late winter" or "end of winter" as is generally recommended for repotting. I have a number of trees that have been growing in the ground for a few years, and I ought to prune the roots this year. It is still mid-winter in the Northern Hemisphere, and it just about touches freezing overnight at the moment. I was planning on waiting until closer to spring, but there will be a lot to do then and I would prefer to get an early start. Is it safe for me to dig up and root prune some plants now?

The trees are privet, pomegranate, vitex agnus castus, chinese elm.

Thanks!

 

[Shibui]

Can I zoom in on this sentence to ask a question about the timing of this operation?

You say "winter", not "late winter" or "end of winter" as is generally recommended for repotting. I have a number of trees that have been growing in the ground for a few years, and I ought to prune the roots this year. It is still mid-winter in the Northern Hemisphere, and it just about touches freezing overnight at the moment. I was planning on waiting until closer to spring, but there will be a lot to do then and I would prefer to get an early start. Is it safe for me to dig up and root prune some plants now?

The trees are privet, pomegranate, vitex agnus castus, chinese elm

Actual timing will depend on climate and species.
Sound like your area is similar to here with most nights in winter just dipping below freezing. In conditions like that there seems to be far more latitude for root pruning earlier. Initially I noticed that commercial bare root plants were in our nurseries soon after leaf drop. That means that commercial growers were digging and transporting from early winter through to spring so I tried earlier root pruning and it works. Growers in colder areas report problems associated with frozen roots but that is at temps far below what we see.
As you have noted spring can be very busy so getting some done early is desirable so I started digging earlier each year to spread the load. I'm now starting with tridents in mid winter because they seem to be the toughest and I have no losses from early root work. I also sell lots of trident and Japanese maple seedlings that are just pulled out and sold bare root. That starts almost as soon as the leaves have dropped and the vast majority of those survive and thrive.

I have been leaving Chinese elms until late winter after some losses that I attributed to root infection when cut roots are in cold, wet soil. There could be other explanations for those deaths but I have not followed up further as later seems to work OK and fits into the work schedule.
I have not grown Vitex here so cannot offer advice.
Also grow very few pomegranates and have usually root pruned later as weather warms up. You will have to do some trials and let us know what works and what does not.
Privet is a weed down here and I can dig and root prune almost any time of year. I don't think you will have any problem starting with these earlier in winter where you are.

All the best with your trees. Don't be too frightened to try things outside accepted bonsai guidelines as I've found most advice extremely conservative.