Talk to Me About Ground Growing

[n8]

This week I helped an organic farmer friend harvest 12,000 pounds of squash and sweet potatoes, plus the last buds of the season from his weed. I learned that he's planning on retiring in March after selling at farmers' markets for the last thirty years. He's going to add some low maintenance orchard trees and possibly grow some exotic plants for craft fairs, but his days of hardcore farming are over and there are 10 acres of available space.

I asked about leasing a small plot of land to develop trunks and he's game. Cost would be minimal or zero in exchange for labor, water would be covered and he has miles of irrigation equipment available to use. This would be full sun; we have stretches of 100° F/38° C heat in the summer. Excellent floodplain soil. No pesticides allowed, so bugs might be an issue. The farm is about 20 minutes from my house, but I would have access any time I wanted. My farmer friend plans on keeping the farm for at least another 5-10 years, so I have some time.

I have a hundred one- and two-year black and red pines, dozens of rooted juniper cuttings and many trident maples that I think would work great in these conditions. (I also have lots of young Japanese maples and hornbeam, but that would require a shadeclothe setup.) I reckon I will get the pines, junipers and tridents in the ground in February. Maybe a few Chinese quince, too.

What advice would you give me? What kind of maintenance am I looking at?

 

[leatherback]

Weeding, unless you work with some weedcloth. Once every 2 months as a minimum.
Trimming back, once a year
Replanting, once every 2-3 years

Biggest challenge is to get soe good movement, taper and decent nebari. It is NOT a matter of just planting seedlings and bonsai grow. I spent the whole afternoon cleaning out a growing bed of mine. Some 10 trees. Rootprune, top prune. till the soil, replant.

 

[MrWunderful]

Ground growing takes more investment than people believe. Here is a thread I started on nebari development, which I believe should be the the very first thing done to deciduous seedlings.

Deciduous Nebari development

I wanted to start a thread to document and discuss developing deciduous nebari through ground layering, tourniquet methods, Ebihara techniques and ground growing. Some backstory: I am a firm believer in not wasting time on bad nebari. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but when...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Shibui]

The temperatures sound similar to here. I grow trident and JM in the grow beds in full sun without protection. Tridents grow fast and are best lifted and root pruned each winter IMHO. JM are a bit slower and are generally left for 2 or 3 years at a time. Pines and junipers are even slower and the roots do not thicken as much and are easier to cut with the shovel so they are generally left in place for 4-6 years until trunks reach size. All trees are better with occasional pruning to get better trunk taper and movement. Please don't fall into the trap of leaving trunks to grow free for years. You may be able to sell stumps but discerning customers will pay more for trunks with taper and fewer scars.

I don't seem to have problems with pest and disease on the trees in grow beds. Much more prevalent on potted trees under stress in crowded nursery conditions.

Weeds will be a problem as @leatherback has mentioned. I use glyphosate and regular hand weeding to control. You obviously won't be able to use the herbicide but can probably get some weed control tips from your organic farmer that may help.
Rows are easier to manage. Leave plenty of room between rows to work in comfortably. I allow grass to grow between tree rows and use the lawn mower to keep it in check. Rows 3-4 feet apart with 12-20 inches between trees in the rows.
I irrigate with drip lines to give the trees water. Overall sprays can encourage more weeds around and between trees.

Pre wire and bend junipers before they go in the ground. Mine are now developed for 2-3 years before planting in the grow beds. Planting wired trees in grow beds is a recipe for disaster unless you are aiming at the grown over wire look. Juniper natural growth habit is long and straight and by the time they have grown there is little you can do to change it. Boring trunks do not sell well. I find that only the first 6 inches of juniper trunk needs bends but try all sorts of ways to see what happens and what your people want to buy.

Nebari is important but there are many ways to get good nebari. Ebihara is just one method of many and from what I have seen is often misinterpreted by enthusiastic beginners who seem to believe it is a magic bullet.

 

[n8]

weedcloth

Yup! I will definitely need to lay some down in this location.

Ground growing takes more investment than people believe.

Expecting this. Appreciate the input and thread.


@Shibui - Was hoping you would chime in. Thank you, especially for the pre-bend advice on junipers!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

JBP & JRP are staples of the bonsai market.

Consider flowering and fruiting trees, perhaps pomegranate, persimmon, either princess persimmon or american persimmon. Olives and Cork oak, Quercus suber might be worth trying. Ume is "in fashion" right now, getting some in the ground might be profitable in the future.

 

[keri-wms]

I’d say:
- Plan for cutting maples back In two stage....well worth doing, first cut to force loads of shoots and low buds, second is to pick the one you want use for the next trunk section, a few months apart will do.
- Always wire conifer whips in a pot before going in the ground.
- Get properly raised beds going if at all possible, so much easier to live with in
!the long run

 

[sorce]

What are your goals for this endeavor?

Sorce

 

[n8]

Consider flowering and fruiting trees, perhaps pomegranate, persimmon, either princess persimmon or american persimmon. Olives and Cork oak, Quercus suber might be worth trying. Ume is "in fashion" right now, getting some in the ground might be profitable in the future.

Good suggestions. This is all orchard country and these species thrive here. Oaks for sure. Shoulda included that in my original list. Cork, valley and blue oaks all grow extremely well in my area.

What are your goals for this endeavor?

How dare you, Sorce. I hadn't really even considered the idea of developing better drunks in the ground until I spent all this time harvesting on the farm last week. Goal would be to develop material for myself and sell a bit to supplement the hobby. I'm not looking to start a business or generate income.

 

[BrianBay9]

How dare you, Sorce. I hadn't really even considered the idea of developing better drunks in the ground until I spent all this time harvesting on the farm last week.

I've found that you don't actually have to plant drunks to improve them. Most drunks get better at drinking all on their own.

 

[tpacker]

This week I helped an organic farmer friend harvest 12,000 pounds of squash and sweet potatoes, plus the last buds of the season from his weed. I learned that he's planning on retiring in March after selling at farmers' markets for the last thirty years. He's going to add some low maintenance orchard trees and possibly grow some exotic plants for craft fairs, but his days of hardcore farming are over and there are 10 acres of available space.

I asked about leasing a small plot of land to develop trunks and he's game. Cost would be minimal or zero in exchange for labor, water would be covered and he has miles of irrigation equipment available to use. This would be full sun; we have stretches of 100° F/38° C heat in the summer. Excellent floodplain soil. No pesticides allowed, so bugs might be an issue. The farm is about 20 minutes from my house, but I would have access any time I wanted. My farmer friend plans on keeping the farm for at least another 5-10 years, so I have some time.

I have a hundred one- and two-year black and red pines, dozens of rooted juniper cuttings and many trident maples that I think would work great in these conditions. (I also have lots of young Japanese maples and hornbeam, but that would require a shadeclothe setup.) I reckon I will get the pines, junipers and tridents in the ground in February. Maybe a few Chinese quince, too.

What advice would you give me? What kind of maintenance am I looking at?

I am a beginner and would be interested in hearing about what you have learned, or what others have to say, about dealing with the roots. Seems to me that it would be quite difficult, if not impossible, to extract the plant/tree after two or more years without leaving most of its root system in the ground as the roots would by then have grown very deep, dense and wide. Someone recommended pulling each one up each winter to trim the roots, which make sense, but would be a ton of work for the number of plants you have. So, input regarding dealing with the root systems in in-ground bonsai plants left in the ground for two or more years would be appreciated (and hopefully will assist you, "n8y," as well. Thanks.

 

[Shibui]

I started out following the 'leave it alone to grow faster' theory. After a couple of years maples have thick roots and it takes a long time to dig them. Each thick root has to be excavated and sawed or cut with large pruning tools. Very hard work. In addition, maples in particular, just grow a few, thicker roots so not really great nebari. At one stage I had to resort to a backhoe machine to dig some Chinese elms because they were just way too hard to do with a shovel and hand tools. Ended up bending one of the rams on the machine.
By digging each winter, root pruning and replanting I get many finer roots. Digging when the roots are small is quite easy - dig down on 4 sides and lift the tree out! The more often the trees are root pruned the more smaller roots grow from the trunk and the better the eventual nebari. Instead of a couple of thick, untapered roots I now get many roots that fork and branch into ever smaller ones so nebari is so much better. These trees also transplant much better as they have plenty of fine roots close to the trunk.
I can dig and prune a whole row of trees now in the same time it would take to do the same to just a few that had been left to grow for several years.

Pines and junipers are a different matter. The roots do not get really thick or as hard as maples roots. Trees also take several years to start growing properly after planting in the round so those are left in place for 3-5 years at a time.

 

[sorce]

Sorce

I still find it a little hard to make a plan operating between 5 and 10 years. It would be best to get that number solidified as much as possible.

I would be planning on taking advantage of every kind of cultivation that makes sense. Understanding this can range from planting a thousand elms and only collecting layers, to planting pines for only 3 years, before colandering them. Everything outside and in between that too.

Utilizing every possible type of cultivation, with many types of trees, can leave you without all your eggs in one basket, but more importantly, allow you to stagger your work, so you can get it all done.

The last thing you want is a call like, "hey gotta dig em tomorrow", and you have all 10 year pines that you can't dig in one day.

Anything that airlayers should be layered only. These can also bring shade by year 2 for those maples.

I think it's important to not be dead set on anything in the first couple years. If something doesn't grow well, replace it with something that will.

Dot some marigolds around for pest prevention.

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

In my back yard, the soil is sticky clay. And not the good kind for making bricks or pots. Any tree left in the ground more than a few months becomes a permanent feature. Its not quite as bad as caliche, but it is pretty bad. All my "ground growing" has to be done in nursery pots, Anderson flats and grow out boxes.

I have friends in Texas, with caliche in their back yards. If they want to plant an apple tree or something, they really do use dynamite to make the hole. It is like digging in rock.

Ground growing simply is not an option everywhere. Some places it is great, some places it is a bad idea.

 

[stu929]

In my back yard, the soil is sticky clay. And not the good kind for making bricks or pots. Any tree left in the ground more than a few months becomes a permanent feature. Its not quite as bad as caliche, but it is pretty bad. All my "ground growing" has to be done in nursery pots, Anderson flats and grow out boxes.

I have friends in Texas, with caliche in their back yards. If they want to plant an apple tree or something, they really do use dynamite to make the hole. It is like digging in rock.

Ground growing simply is not an option everywhere. Some places it is great, some places it is a bad idea.

Funny you mention this, I have purchased trees that came in thick red clay from the south that was a bear to deal with. Im glad ours is not that bad but the soil in my back yard is very heavy in clay. When it gets wet its a sticky heavy mess. I only have a few trees in the ground ( My big baldy is the only important one) but the quality of the soil does concern me. I can get a cubic yard or top soil for 40 bucks should I build grow beds.

 

[leatherback]

wow. Guess I am lucky. THis is what a quick shake does for me:

 

[stu929]

wow. Guess I am lucky. THis is what a quick shake does for me:

View attachment 340079

wow... anything I move or dig up here has to be done with an extreme amount of caution, and Im referring to garden trees. I have not dug up anything for bonsai yet.

 

[leatherback]

dig up

I did dig it of course. Than a shake over a wheel barrow and off into the shed to trim & clean up.

 

[stu929]

I did dig it of course. Than a shake over a wheel barrow and off into the shed to trim & clean up.

of course but my soil would be clung to that like thick pizza dough.

 

[leatherback]