Suggestions

[nurvbonsai]

Hey everyone. I’m new here and new to bonsai, I was hoping to glean from the experiences and knowledge that are likely here. It’s hard getting into this without any direct one to one hands on approach and I’m looking at some classes. But I was searching for guidance. Any suggestions here? Did I screw up my Japanese Maple is my first question. Some others on some other forums suggested that I didn’t have any taper but sacrifice branches. I just feel drastic and out of element.

Thanks.

 

[nurvbonsai]

My first tree

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Japanese Maples, given good horticulture, ca take big cut backs (right after the leaves have hardened off) to regain taper. So likely the tree hasn’t been messed up, it will simply take more time to rework the tree properly.

The same thing is done by many novice hobbyists. Folks focus on horticulture so much that taper becomes an issue. Consequently many trees end up being reworked.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[nurvbonsai]

Japanese Maples, given good horticulture, ca take big cut backs (right after the leaves have hardened off) to regain taper. So likely the tree hasn’t been messed up, it will simply take more time to rework the tree properly.

The same thing is done by many novice hobbyists. Folks focus on horticulture so much that taper becomes an issue. Consequently many trees end up being reworked.

Cheers
DSD sends

Whew. I know it’s a process and I need to trust it more but thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will now look to see what happens in the spring but I was hoping that the trunk would thicken over the next few years but did I set it back even further? I just want to be an old man with set bonsais.

Thanks again!

 

[EnderStar101]

Whew. I know it’s a process and I need to trust it more but thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will now look to see what happens in the spring but I was hoping that the trunk would thicken over the next few years but did I set it back even further? I just want to be an old man with set bonsais.

Thanks again!

Trunk chop will slow down the thickening of the trunk but will increase taper afaik. The time it takes for the new leader to develop will take away from the trunk development but in return the tip of the tree won't be as thick. If the goal is to speedrun to a thick trunk then itll take longer but what's arguably more important than trunk thickness is convincing taper.

Granted I'm also pretty new so I'm parroting what I've been reading. Maybe someone with more experience could weigh in as well.

 

[nurvbonsai]

I feel kinda stuck now. It was either making a decision to sacrifice taper for a thicker trunk on the one hand or continuing to let it thicken the truck by growing out sacrifice branches and then making a chop. So now it will grow taper but not necessarily a thicker trunk.

I don’t know what I want to do with it. I’d like to make a forest out of the dwarf jade cuttings I plan to let continue to grow.

I guess I’ll see what happens in the spring 2025 with the maple. Oh brother. It’s definitely a long game treatment which I’m continuously practicing in surrendering towards but I wish I could figure out a plan. Of all the images I’ve found, I’m quite fond of the maple progression and I hope that I just didn’t hinder it from happening reasonably from at least a couple of years to now decades to get it back to where it’s workable again.

 

[TrevorLarsen]

I think in a few years you might be better off having been aggressive. It’s a common saying in bonsai “if you are not killing some trees then you are not being aggressive enough”. That applies only to pre-bonsai material like what you have, obviously if it’s a tree in refinement you need to be cautious. I think it’s worth the risk with young material to swing for the fences, and you learn more that way too.

 

[nurvbonsai]

I hear you. I’ll decree Uncle in my surrendering process. Thanks!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

There are a couple ways to create a maple bonsai.

The first is to basically clip and grow the tree from the gitgo, building taper and ramification as one grows out each section. Occasional chops can be done. This method is especially suitable for most Japanese Maples and creates a more delicate, feminine tree. But takes a longer time to accomplish.

The other, and quicker method, is to grow out the tree hard and fast, chopping every year, creating new sections along the way using sacrifice branches. Once the trunk is built with taper one goes back and builds branches. This is best to use on vigorous chunky designs. Particularly used for trident maples. However can be used for more robust Japanese Maple designs.

That said, folks often work between the two methods, depending upon one’s goals and how the tree responds.

A single chop isn’t the end of the world.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[doc spring _work]

With the maple (seemingly) getting cut back id throw it in the ground to grow for a few years giving it some shaping and pruning back 1-2 a year depending on growth

 

[Shibui]

There are many different roads to bonsai as you can already gather from the range of opinions already. Most are valid but may result in slightly different end product in different timelines. The one constant seems to be patience because almost every road takes many years to achieve quality bonsai. If you want the quick road and are happy with mediocre 'mallsai' that's fine too but quality bonsai will take either time or money.

Adding a location to your personal profile can get way better advice as we can then tailor relies to match your climate. At the moment it isn't clear whether you are northern or southern hemisphere, let alone harsh or mild winters. Location has such a big bearing on what we do and when we do it so knowing where you are will definitely help with better advice.

 

[rockm]

I feel kinda stuck now. It was either making a decision to sacrifice taper for a thicker trunk on the one hand or continuing to let it thicken the truck by growing out sacrifice branches and then making a chop. So now it will grow taper but not necessarily a thicker trunk.

I don’t know what I want to do with it. I’d like to make a forest out of the dwarf jade cuttings I plan to let continue to grow.

I guess I’ll see what happens in the spring 2025 with the maple. Oh brother. It’s definitely a long game treatment which I’m continuously practicing in surrendering towards but I wish I could figure out a plan. Of all the images I’ve found, I’m quite fond of the maple progression and I hope that I just didn’t hinder it from happening reasonably from at least a couple of years to now decades to get it back to where it’s workable again.

FWIW, you're not going to get much trunk thickening in a container with the JM. Restricting root growth in a container is one of the last steps in developing a bonsai. If you want to thicken the trunk, give the tree as much room to push roots as possible and allow it to grow. The ground is the best place to do that. Larger containers can do it, but more slowly and you have to balance not using a container that is TOO large--Larger containers can be a problem since they have more soil that can stay wet and actually inhibit root growth.

The first stages of growing a trunk are a balance of getting to the diameter lower down that you want THEN chopping at a location that will produce taper with new leaders. The trunk and nebari are developed FIRST by growing the tree as much as possible. That means no pruning, allowing as much growth on the top as possible. Growth up top fuels the increase in diameter lower down. Once the tree has reached the diameter you want (this is a matter of preference and plans for the size of the "completed" tree) the tree is chopped. So you have to decide what you want to do with the tree, do you want a smaller shohin-sized maple, or a larger bonsai? Decide that work towards that goal using the grow out/chop back.

 

[nurvbonsai]

With the maple (seemingly) getting cut back id throw it in the ground to grow for a few years giving it some shaping and pruning back 1-2 a year depending on growth

Thank you for the reply. I live in 7A I believe and have been living in an apartment complex for several years now.

 

[nurvbonsai]

FWIW, you're not going to get much trunk thickening in a container with the JM. Restricting root growth in a container is one of the last steps in developing a bonsai. If you want to thicken the trunk, give the tree as much room to push roots as possible and allow it to grow. The ground is the best place to do that. Larger containers can do it, but more slowly and you have to balance not using a container that is TOO large--Larger containers can be a problem since they have more soil that can stay wet and actually inhibit root growth.

The first stages of growing a trunk are a balance of getting to the diameter lower down that you want THEN chopping at a location that will produce taper with new leaders. The trunk and nebari are developed FIRST by growing the tree as much as possible. That means no pruning, allowing as much growth on the top as possible. Growth up top fuels the increase in diameter lower down. Once the tree has reached the diameter you want (this is a matter of preference and plans for the size of the "completed" tree) the tree is chopped. So you have to decide what you want to do with the tree, do you want a smaller shohin-sized maple, or a larger bonsai? Decide that work towards that goal using the grow out/chop back.

I hear you. Thanks for the reply but I live in an apartment complex for several years now. 7A Middle TN area

 

[EnderStar101]

I hear you. Thanks for the reply but I live in an apartment complex for several years now. 7A Middle TN area

I've heard with proper practice you can develop trunks in pots in a reasonable time as well, there is definitely some good reading on the site as well. It'll never be AS fast as ground growing, but you get the benefit of more controlled growth.

P.S. I live in the same climate zone, do u have any other trees that are successful there? Out of personal curiosity. Also what cultivar is your JM if you know?

 

[rockm]

I've heard with proper practice you can develop trunks in pots in a reasonable time as well, there is definitely some good reading on the site as well. It'll never be AS fast as ground growing, but you get the benefit of more controlled growth.

P.S. I live in the same climate zone, do u have any other trees that are successful there? Out of personal curiosity. Also what cultivar is your JM if you know?

Define "reasonable"... It largely depends on what you're trying to get done. Yeah, you can develop a mame or shohin sized trunk in a few years in a pot. Larger trunks a decade or more. I've done it. Takes time.

 

[nurvbonsai]

Define "reasonable"... It largely depends on what you're trying to get done. Yeah, you can develop a mame or shohin sized trunk in a few years in a pot. Larger trunks a decade or more. I've done it. Takes time.

I am also interested in mame as well. I was hoping to create something akin to this?

 

[EnderStar101]

I am also interested in mame as well. I was hoping to create something akin to this?

I would definitely look into what cultivar your JM is if you aren't sure. Some don't respond to ramification and defoliation as well as others.

Mine is gonna have to be quite big to make up for it personally and I'm looking at upwards of 4" of trunk thickness.

 

[rockm]

I am also interested in mame as well. I was hoping to create something akin to this?

That's a pretty large tree. Not mame. FWIW, this kind of tree is not easy to do, particularly in tiny sizes. The smaller the tree, the more skill involved in making it.

The basic process for this tree is a complete trunk chop mostly flush with the nebari, then growing out new shoots into trunks.

 

[EnderStar101]

Define "reasonable"... It largely depends on what you're trying to get done. Yeah, you can develop a mame or shohin sized trunk in a few years in a pot. Larger trunks a decade or more. I've done it. Takes time.

Yea I mean I figured getting a thick trunk takes time no matter how you do it and ground growing is just the best method. It's not like they really have the option available to them anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯