Suggestions for a broom in the making...

[AaronThomas]

Hey all... so here is a tree I have posted a number of times in the past. Last year I finally bucked up and started a ground layer. With a ton of new root growth... early this season I separated the layer from the old root mass and finally was able to get the tree lower in a pot and start working on some nebari....
I haven’t trimmed the tree since last season. She’s looking leggy with not a ton of new top growth but I’m assuming it’s still working on establishing its new root system.
Now that I have the tree nearly where I want it... starting to think about development for a proper broom.
Thoughts?
Cut back hard and short or just the upper leggy shoots? Going to need lots of back budding due to the fact there are only 4 main branches on the trunk. Maybe a thread graft or two are in order.
The chop you see was done before I got it some 6 years ago. I removed the dead wood and re-wounded in hopes of getting some roll over.... it’s working.

 

[sorce]

I'd cut them 3 subtrunks back to one fork each, so you have 6 branch ends that will grow 12 branches you can begin placing where you want.

Sorce

 

[AaronThomas]

I'd cut them 3 subtrunks

That’s what I’m thinking....debating how far?

 

[sorce]

They might not all have perfect forks huh?

Reckon that other biggest one is the most problematic. Or, most capable of coaxing you into removing the wrong stuff.

Sorce

 

[AZbonsai]

I am a notoriously go slow person in dealing with trees. I would cut straight across 2/3 the way down from the top this season. Let it grow and go after more refinement next season. My 2 cents. Nice trunk!

 

[MrWunderful]

I'd cut them 3 subtrunks back to one fork each, so you have 6 branch ends that will grow 12 branches you can begin placing where you want.

Sorce

Yep. A little wire in fall with that stump clean up and you are good to go.

 

[AaronThomas]

@AZbonsai Hey Randy... thought about that too! Thought maybe cut a few inches down saving the larger of the branches then cut branches back. Would hate to loose the larger branches by cutting lower than that... also worried about not getting growth at chop.

 

[AaronThomas]

@sorce and @MrWunderful
Those branches are on the long side before they start to branch off to the existing forks... Perhaps I can get the newer forks tighter?

 

[sorce]

I killed a bunch of elms and/or they were never really healthy, so I shied away from cutting much, but after smoke convinced me to keep cutting mine, I have been happy with the results, and they seem healthy enough to keep going.

I don't think you can go wrong hitting it hard.

Sorce

 

[Forsoothe!]

Aaron needs a ruler across his knuckles. If you haven't been in stir or the hospital, you have no excuse for letting this critter get this uncontrolled. You can either grow wood to keep or to waste. A broom only has some number of major, then minor upright branches to then ramify from. They need to be balanced the same as any other configuration, sort of like trees in a forest planting: too many to count with eye, but not so many that there can't be some irregular spacing without a recognizable pattern. Even if you're making a helmet, you still want to have a display of branches under the lady's skirt that is graceful. It can be Popsicle round or rounded flame or some variant thereof, but it needs a graceful shape, that has branches pointed as some destination that is some semi-equal part the ultimate canopy shape, or graceful clouds which merge to make a single entity. Topiary is frowned upon, and there is some cross-over between some semi-formal uprights with layers that approach topiary except, the bottom of layers need to pretty flat formal or informal upright. Helter-Skelter branches can't be all straight up, they need to point to the outer limit of either the open-hand-Popsicle or the rounded flame with no two occupying the same trajectory, so there is lots of wasted wood growth that could have been redirected into some number of well located, chosen verticals have would have some strategic ramification now instead of too many parallel, skinny branches. Bad Aaron. Stick out your hand...

 

[AaronThomas]

Bad Aaron. Stick out your hand...

Hahahahah Hahahahah!!!!
Noooooo I have no intention of keeping any of those shoots.
My primary intention was to ground layer last year and then proceed with a chop. I let the tree grow untouched with the idea of keeping the tree as healthy as possible during the layering process as well as thickening up branches which has happened.
Now that the layer has taken... I’m having second thoughts about the chop.
In hindsight... I should have left my options open and perhaps trimmed a bit... but what ever I decide, whether a chop or hard prune the tangle of strait shoots gone.
That being said I do understand what you are saying and thank you for the reply!

At this point would you chop or cut back?

 

[AaronThomas]

 

[Potawatomi13]

Brooms boring boring boring. Best advice is try any other style with some actual interesting structure.

 

[leatherback]

Is the picture you show here the recent state of affairs? I mean.. After the ground layer?
I ask because I wonder whether the roots I see are the result of the layer; Or did you layer some of the individual roots?

If this is a current picture: Are you sure it grew enough last year to warrant a big cut now: Have the roots made sufficient mass & storage to get a strong response? The tree as I see it now, has only foliage at the ends of the branches, whereas a healthy elm in spring would be shooting buds all over the place..

I cannot judge the health from a picture. But unless you are sure it is healthy and established, becarefull. You get much fasteer development if you allow a tree to get healthy before doing drastic work.

It is a shame that the primaries have so little movement and taper close to the trunk. Else I would clean out the mass of branches to get back to a basic outline of maybe half the height & width of what you have, leaving maybe one in every 4 branches only. Then build back from there. But year, you probably will end up cutting back hard at some point anyway to get some taper in there. Guess back to primaries and some secondaries it is, assuming the tree is well established.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Brooms boring boring boring. Best advice is try any other style with some actual interesting structure.

Boo Hiss. Any style can be poorly carried out, and any style can be well accomplished.

 

[Forsoothe!]

At this point would you chop or cut back?

I choose architecture as soon as possible, and grow sacrificial branches/twigs from there as much and as long as is useful. It's never easier to wire a main branch pointed in exactly the position you want it than when it is do-able with 2mm or smaller. Then, those majors can be grown & chopped as many times as suits you as the wood gets thicker and thicker. I'm old and I can't waste wood or time.

 

[AaronThomas]

Is the picture you show here the recent state of affairs?

Hey LB! YEP.. Taken yesterday. I agree.. tree is looking leggy... working on root system is my guess. Leaves look healthy and many buds below but not popping.
Not planing on risking major work at the moment... hoping to do work a bit further into summer if not next season.

You get much fasteer development if you allow a tree to get healthy before doing drastic work.

Agree 100%

It is a shame that the primaries have so little movement and taper close to the trunk

Yeah... would be nice to have more going on in those branches.

did you layer some of the individual roots?

This is the tree in which I tied off the roots last season. There was a ton of growth so I don't feel I cut premature. Below is a pic after the separation on Feb 1. I probably could have tied off higher but I'm happy with the results.

 

[leatherback]

Ah right!
Yeah, let it grow!

 

[AaronThomas]

Brooms boring boring boring.

REALLY?
Reminds me of when my brother brought his rather unfortunate looking lady friend home from college for the first time one Thanksgiving a million years ago.... My 92 year old grandmother nudged me and whispered in my ear..."Love is in the eye of the beholder." LOL
I love broom style elms... think they can be stunning.
Have always loved this tree....