Strobus! Discuss.

[jeanluc83]

Finely we are getting a good discussion going on strobus. Most just end up with a bunch of people saying they are not worth the time, the needles are too long and so forth. Usually written by people who have never even owned one.

Leo, you have provided some of the best information I have seen on eastern white pine. That tree is fantastic. It is one that I am sure is even more impressive in person.

Osoyoung, sorry if I came across like I was calling you out. Like I said everything that I have read implies single flush growth.

I hope to find a specimen worth collecting next spring.

 

[0soyoung]

Like I said everything that I have read implies single flush growth.

Yah, I too encounter that: all 5 needle pines are (Japanese) white pines. All 2-3 needle are (Japanese) black pines, except ponderosa which is a (J) white pine. I suppose it is not a bad starting point.

I most often rely on the autonomy of individual branches and do 'illegal' things to a few just to see what happens. I 'discovered' that the JBP decandling will affect needle length reduction a couple of years before I first saw a second flush on my strobus.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Thanks Osoyoung, I like your comments. I guess you are right - it can be a two flush pine. Climate is key. Also your cool summers are key. P. strobus grows well with cool temperatures, I see active growth even when daytime highs are in the 50's. My JBP this year have not matured their summer candles after my June candle removal. We have had an unusually cool summer. We did get a few warm days, but all in all it was pretty cool this year. I have seen strobus go dormant during long hot spells, you seem to have the perfect climate for this species.

So do you treat it as 2 flush pine? It depends on the climate is the best answer. Observe and decide from what your own trees do. At my place I can't count on it.

Like you I love this species. Your comment about needles lasting only 18 months is right on the mark. I myself really need to stay on top of encouraging ramification by cutting candles (in half to distinguish the treatment from what is done for JBP), over the 20+ years of playing with strobus this is one activity I have been lax on, and my lack of satisfactory success is the result of not being aggressive with this activity. I will start being more aggressive and see how my trees respond. Maybe this is the key I've been missing.

I was gifted a weeping strobus recently - and it really is pleasant, though not bonsai yet. It will be the recipient of more aggressive candle cutting to see it this helps create the ramification this tree needs. The soft foliage flows, almost water fall like, it is going to be fun.

There are short needle, dwarf cultivars of strobus, I have not tried anything with them yet, but if I could get them grafted onto strobus under-stock, maybe they could become the perfect bonsai for far northern growers. I will have to pick up one or two to experiment with.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Can you elaborate on the method you are suggesting for strobus? Are you saying in late spring when the candles have mostly extended into needles, to cut off half of the new growth? In the past, I have been flicking off new buds in early winter, in order to encourage backbudding when the buds reform, without setting back the tree's energy too much, but the proof is in the pudding I suppose and I can't quite call my tree a specimen.

More pictures please and thank you for contributing.

David

 

[0soyoung]

Can you elaborate on the method you are suggesting for strobus? Are you saying in late spring when the candles have mostly extended into needles, to cut off half of the new growth?

Yes, I can. And no, that is not what I am saying.

In early spring, say May or before, cut off the end of the branch, leaving about 1/2 of the fascicles (i.e., you will hold in your hand the severed branch end with buds/candles on the end and about half the foliage that was on that branch). One can do this with any pine, but with strobus it must be done no later than June (so I say before the summer solstice).

I've tried partially cutting candles in late fall (November-ish for me) but it doesn't seem to be as effective as waiting until early spring.

In either case, the principle is that lopping off fresh, hardened foliage should collapse the auxin flow and release fascular buds. One would want to remove all the foliage possible to have the maximum effect. On the other hand one wants as many active fascicles as possible to have the best chance of popping a bud. So, I say 'about half'. I really don't know that it is optimum - a bit more or a bit less may well be better.

 

[0soyoung]

Can you elaborate ... More pictures please ....

I'm unsure what you are asking for, but I did find a picture of some strobus fascicular buds that I took in late June, about a month after I pruned off about half of the foliage (again, I'm not splitting hairs - 'about half'). Toward the left you can see the pruning stub. Even though there are more of them, I've drawn attention to three easily seen fascicular buds that were produced by the pruning I did in May.

One has the choice with strobus of first removing needles in the fall from where you won't want new buds or to remove the buds you don't want in June/July. So far, I am liking the display of needles all around, so I am currently picking off the buds I don't want in June/July.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Thank you that is food for thought for me going forward. Can you post a picture of your strobus from the front so I can get an idea what you are working towards?

I would like to start to try out some more advanced techniques to start working on the form of my tree. I also want to grow it out, so I was thinking of growing a sacrifice section on each branch starting with a runner on the first branch this year in order to thicken the first branch and contribute to the taper. I would also start a sacrifice somewhere towards the apex for general thickening.

Since I have done little to no pruning this year, correct me if I am wrong, but I should wait until early spring to cut this years growth back to a handful of needles as a form of late candling. Then after new candles develop, (late May or so)I would remove the sections of branches that do not fit into the design or sacrifice structure.

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but I look forward to moving forward with a definitive plan that I can report back on.

 

[0soyoung]

Since I have done little to no pruning this year, correct me if I am wrong, but I should wait until early spring to cut this year’s growth back to a handful of needles as a form of late candling. Then after new candles develop, (late May or so) I would remove the sections of branches that do not fit into the design or sacrifice structure.

Yes, that is correct.

My experimentation has largely been done on a few branches at a time on a pair of ‘pygmea’ dwarfs that have been growing in my landscape for 8 years now (they have the full size needles). After 4 years growing them to merge and fit into their space, my focus turned to looking for a method to maintain their size.
I added my interest in strobus for bonsai only recently. I have two P. strobi (what is the plural of strobus?) that I am working with. Both are common nursery stock that I’ve only had for a couple of seasons and are nothing to write home about.
One is a 3 foot long stick with some foliage on top for which I paid the outrageous sum of $3.00 (I paid $8.00 for the bulb pan it is in)! I have been thinking along the lines of making a foliage cloud held aloft by a nondescript stem, but Leo's pic is a model of something much more attractive to aim for. It is going to be a several years yet to find out if I can make anything of it.
The other is a 'minima' which has needles about half the usual strobus size (i.e., scaled down, finer and shorter). It is about 16 inches tall in its current potting orientation. My idea for it is to have the foliage completely cover the trunk and branches so that after its annual ‘April-ish’ pruning, the foliage will appear as a thin veil with the branches and trunk seen as a silhouette underneath. I am hoping to achieve a reasonable facsimile of this idea by June 2016.

 

[M. Frary]

I couldn't resist. I collected it last spring and put it in this pot. The reason is because I didn't have to touch the roots. It also constrains them. I don't have a recent picture but the tree is still alive and pretty much looks the same. It only grew about a quarter of an inch this year. And the needles came out a touch shorter. It is also back budding a little. 3 on old wood to be exact. In the spring I plan on putting it in a different pot. It likes to be moist so it will be planted in pure Napa oil dri.
This tree is only 9" tall. The needles are under an inch long.

 

[M. Frary]

Forgot yet again!

 

[jeanluc83]

Well I managed to find a tree that looks like it is worth collecting. I figured I would resurrect this thread to get some advice.

It is a road side tree that has been cut back at least once. It is about 3" at the base and around 30" tall. There is some reasonable taper and some fairly good low branches. Once I get a chance I'll see if I can get some pictures.

So what I'm looking for is some advice on collection. It will likely require some significant root reduction at collection. How well do EWP deal with root reduction? Also any key advice on after care?

 

[Giga]

don't have a recent pics but I found a decent strobus



After styled-sorry not the best pic



I'll be repotting this spring so I most likely be candle pruning but I like this species