Starting from nursery stock Bald Cypress

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi Native tree,
I just bought this tree at a landscape nursery, which I chopped the top off to get into my car. It was around 7-8 feet and as 6 foot plus in the photo it was fun squeezing this in ?.
This in a 45 litre (sorry metric) bag and I figure the bottom half of a 44 gallon drum is around 100 litres.
Anyway, not trying to hijack this thread, just wondering what others would do with this for the next 3-5 years. I am wondering about trunk chop to 50-75 cm, root work, but planting where - box and submerge or that might not work?


Great thread to read, and good luck with your tree ?
Charles

 

[Native Tree12]

Hi Charles
No problem
nice find
IMO I thought the nursery bags are meant for nursery stock in the ground for easy removal at a later date ..I'm not sure you need the bag and the barrel ..from what others have posted as tips drill overflow holes in your barrel to keep from having to much water ..and put the tree in without the bag
If you were putting the tree in a pond edge or something I guess then yes use the bag ..

I'm thinking of going to a much larger diameter than the 55 gallon 22 in ..to a almost 3 foot diameter tree nursery pot .. will I get more trunk growth ? with a bigger pot ?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I cut my 55 gallon barrel the other day in preparation for the transfer ..and reading other threads i'm hopeful for increased size growing this submerged ..
Should I use an even larger container ,,I have a very large 100 gallon ? commercial container that I can plug the holes in ?

The bigger the pot, the more room for growth, the better your chances of branches. However, there is a practical limit. How heavy will it be? Can you move it by yourself? WIthout injury? Can you tell by my questions I'm over 60 years old? I really feel you can get all the growth you need in the 55 gallon drum bottom. Really. But more won't hurt. If you get out past the point of being easy enough to handle, you might neglect doing work in a timely fashion. Just my 2 cents. I did loose one or two monster trees because I could not move them by myself after an injury. There is an up side to shohin.

 

[Native Tree12]

Hi Leo
I am also over 60 ..I just had that same thought ..moving the 1/3 55 will be heavy enough ..I was half envisioning a container swamp with three that would probably stay in the container outside ..1/2 water 1/2 or so land for the tree ..separated by a grid of some type to hold the dirt in .more work than I want to do right now I think however ..fish ? water plants

Yes its unfortunate how nursery stock is trimmed ..I would like more branching lower hopefully it works out ..I may plant it on a
slight angle to add some interest ?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hi Native tree,
I just bought this tree at a landscape nursery, which I chopped the top off to get into my car. It was around 7-8 feet and as 6 foot plus in the photo it was fun squeezing this in ?.
This in a 45 litre (sorry metric) bag and I figure the bottom half of a 44 gallon drum is around 100 litres.
Anyway, not trying to hijack this thread, just wondering what others would do with this for the next 3-5 years. I am wondering about trunk chop to 50-75 cm, root work, but planting where - box and submerge or that might not work?
View attachment 222409View attachment 222408

Great thread to read, and good luck with your tree ?
Charles

To my tastes, the diameter of this trunk, 10 cm above the soil, the diameter is ideal. Much bigger and the final tree would have to be too large for one man to handle. So you no longer need to build trunk diameter.

Charles, since you are in New Zealand, you don't get to see bald cypress in the wild. I took a few pictures on a canoe trip through the Lower Cache River, and this one in particular might be a good model, and doable in relatively few years. You could reproduce this image and keep it under 1 meter tall. Either one would work, closest tree on the right is my favorite. The smaller one center left is okay too. To achieve this I would do a drastic prune to roughly 20 or 30 cm from the soil. Yes, that is really drastic, but a healthy tree will respond with lots of buds. Then you could choose one or two or more leaders to make the vertical trunk(s). Then later, after trunks have barked up enough to be resilient, you can carve the wound to look like this broken and blasted trunk.



Just to give you a flavor of how bald cypress look in Illinois in the wild here are more pictures.

Oldest Bald Cypress in Illinois, roughly 1300 years old. Base and top half of tree. Click for larger image.


Just a nice old tree, probably in the 500 to 800 year old range.


a lane of cypress,


Knees for the needy?


Just a nice shot showing how apex develop. Most of these are bald cypress somewhere over 100 years old.


These next photos are from a different place, Horseshoe Lake, just north of Cairo, Illinois just off Highway 51
a bit more twiggy than the ones on the Cache River.

note the low branches on the stump


Horseshoe Lake, art photo, catching the reflections as sunset approaches.



Hope these pictures give you some inspiration
Leo

 

[Cajunrider]

I cut my 55 gallon barrel the other day in preparation for the transfer ..and reading other threads i'm hopeful for increased size growing this submerged ..
Should I use an even larger container ,,I have a very large 100 gallon ? commercial container that I can plug the holes in ?

I'm not sure that you need some thing that large .

 

[Mellow Mullet]

The bottom of a 55 gallon drum is plenty big enough to grow it out, I would only use the bottom 8-10 inches of the drum, you want to create a shallow root system; if you put it in a deep container again you will end up with what you have now, only more of it. I have two the size of yours that I am growing in an oil change pan. They can take a pretty severe root pruning with not problems, BC are actually hard to kill.

Here is an example of root pruning:

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/c.../9-blog-post/29-bald-cypress-repot?Itemid=101

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/tree-progressions/bald-cypress/bald-cypress-I

Growing in an oil drain pan:

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/tree-progressions/bald-cypress/bald-cypress-ii

Hope it helps!

John

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

To my tastes, the diameter of this trunk, 10 cm above the soil, the diameter is ideal. Much bigger and the final tree would have to be too large for one man to handle. So you no longer need to build trunk diameter.

Charles, since you are in New Zealand, you don't get to see bald cypress in the wild. I took a few pictures on a canoe trip through the Lower Cache River, and this one in particular might be a good model, and doable in relatively few years. You could reproduce this image and keep it under 1 meter tall. Either one would work, closest tree on the right is my favorite. The smaller one center left is okay too. To achieve this I would do a drastic prune to roughly 20 or 30 cm from the soil. Yes, that is really drastic, but a healthy tree will respond with lots of buds. Then you could choose one or two or more leaders to make the vertical trunk(s). Then later, after trunks have barked up enough to be resilient, you can carve the wound to look like this broken and blasted trunk.

View attachment 222421

Just to give you a flavor of how bald cypress look in Illinois in the wild here are more pictures.

Oldest Bald Cypress in Illinois, roughly 1300 years old. Base and top half of tree. Click for larger image.
View attachment 222417 View attachment 222418

Just a nice old tree, probably in the 500 to 800 year old range.
View attachment 222416

a lane of cypress,
View attachment 222419

Knees for the needy?
View attachment 222420

Just a nice shot showing how apex develop. Most of these are bald cypress somewhere over 100 years old.
View attachment 222422

These next photos are from a different place, Horseshoe Lake, just north of Cairo, Illinois just off Highway 51
View attachment 222423a bit more twiggy than the ones on the Cache River.

View attachment 222424 note the low branches on the stump


Horseshoe Lake, art photo, catching the reflections as sunset approaches.

View attachment 222425

Hope these pictures give you some inspiration
Leo

Hi Leo,
Thank you so much for your extra effort you went to, to help describe what I was looking for. And yes, only Swamp Cypress here grow as large trees in gardens/landscape areas. The multi trunk option wasn’t something I had thought of, so definitely way cool to think about growing. I have a couple of smaller stumps I am growing in boxes, so yep, great post ?.
I recommend you as one of our “Nuthouse” tutors. Hope @Bonsai Nut might be able to set up something like this for the less experienced to ask questions about all things bonsai.
Charles.

 

[Native Tree12]

Just an up date

I'm not sure i root pruned it enough but I wanted to ensure some good branch development
So here I am after transplanting into a 1/3 55 gallon drum with drain holes last month
I'll see how it does

Not sure it will be that pretty ..I kind of like the curve ..lets hope I get some decent branching over the next year

Thanks for the help

 

[Native Tree12]

The bottom of a 55 gallon drum is plenty big enough to grow it out, I would only use the bottom 8-10 inches of the drum, you want to create a shallow root system; if you put it in a deep container again you will end up with what you have now, only more of it. I have two the size of yours that I am growing in an oil change pan. They can take a pretty severe root pruning with not problems, BC are actually hard to kill.

Here is an example of root pruning:

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/c.../9-blog-post/29-bald-cypress-repot?Itemid=101

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/tree-progressions/bald-cypress/bald-cypress-I

Growing in an oil drain pan:

http://www.heartofdixiebonsai.com/tree-progressions/bald-cypress/bald-cypress-ii

Hope it helps!

John

Thanks I saved the info

 

[Native Tree12]

Do you think I should take some off the top now ,,getting it closer to a workable height and start a branch from the top ..
or let it grow and go for the flat top look later ?

I guess it depends on the style I want to try
But I would like most branches now ..

 

[JoeH]

Do you think I should take some off the top now ,,getting it closer to a workable height and start a branch from the top ..
or let it grow and go for the flat top look later ?

I guess it depends on the style I want to try
But I would like most branches now ..

yeah, chop it way down and develop a new leader. when you select the leader wire it straight up right below the cut, then repeat next year to get some taper to it.

 

[Native Tree12]

Thanks Joe ..That makes sense

 

[JoeH]

Thanks Joe ..That makes sense

Oh and chop it at an angle so its not a flat surface. It will heal over pretty well.

 

[Native Tree12]

Thank you

 

[Vinnie Charity]

If you want the trunk to thicken more, I’d wait to chop it. You’ll get differing opinions from everyone, but thick trunks are only achieved by letting the tree grow. Once it gets close the the thickness you want, then chop...

 

[Native Tree12]

Hi Vinnie

You read my mind ..I thought last night going back to my original reason to plant it in a 55 gal drum .. I was was attempting to thicken the trunk ..
So Yes I agree with Joe cutting on an angle etc to promote taper .. However I want to try for a larger trunk ..Its also the reason I did not over root prune it

Let It grow is my choice ..


Thanks again

 

[JoeH]

Hi Vinnie

You read my mind ..I thought last night going back to my original reason to plant it in a 55 gal drum .. I was was attempting to thicken the trunk ..
So Yes I agree with Joe cutting on an angle etc to promote taper .. However I want to try for a larger trunk ..Its also the reason I did not over root prune it

Let It grow is my choice ..


Thanks again

It all depends on your final vision of where you want to get to. keep it smaller or let it go nuts. I know the base will still get wider submerged.

 

[Native Tree12]

Here are my BC after a summer of growth.. one in the 1/3 55 gallon drum now over 6 ft tall Thank you Cajun rider . I may try a wetland container set up ? A bigger version of what you have Joe

The side ways on was root bound in its training pot ..I had it leaning in the training pot and will continue in that direction with more of a root trim this winter

So thank you to all for the advice on the 55 gallon drum

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Here are my BC after a summer of growth.. one in the 1/3 55 gallon drum now over 6 ft tall Thank you Cajun rider View attachment 269585View attachment 269586View attachment 269587. I may try a wetland container set up ? A bigger version of what you have Joe

The side ways on was root bound in its training pot ..I had it leaning in the training pot and will continue in that direction with more of a root trim this winter

So thank you to all for the advice on the 55 gallon drum

Hi,
Nice fluting of the base on the first photo.
Charles