Starting a shohin

ConorDash

ConorDash

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Hello,

This was just a wondering.. but how does one start to train a tree for the purpose of it becoming a shohin?
With their small size but usually large base and extreme tapering, how would one go about beginning that?
All I can think is chopping a tree with a good base and nebari, down very very low, so it's essentially just a tiny but wide stump then having a leader and continuing that way... but the spaces between the chop each time would have to be very tight and a lot of chops. Maybe each chop only adding an inch or less each time, hence the long time it takes to develop such a tree?

Maybe this is just an incessant train journey pondering and I'm not making any sense... well, tell me your thoughts nonetheless :).
Feel free to share any links, I had a look and wasn't greatly successful with specific info on shohin development (I'm on a phone travelling so I've been able to search extensively).
 
Hi Conner, if you're interested i have quite a few shohin sized elms in the allotment that i just got bored of. a lot! cork barked chinese elms and normal chinese elms. they were from forest that i'd dismantled last year. most have been in the ground for roughly a season now.
IMG_6500 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

if youre interested i could just dig a few up, stick em in a big pot and you could have them for cheap. i have a lot of fine handmade shohin sized pots too.

you dont always have to have just one leader when building a small tree, it can take many years for one leader to transition convincingly into a fat, tapered base. so sometimes you just have many leaders and create a broom style tree. all depends on the material really and what options you have with it.
Here's an english elm chopped down to make a shohin sized tree..
2016-05-29_05-28-54 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
2016-05-29_05-30-35 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

it already had a nice apical branch/leader that ill use to be the highest part of the tree, or i may just keep all evenly spread like a broom.

2016-06-05_01-32-56 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_0502 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

the canopy will just be grown as one even, domed crown. this tree is now in the ground, these grow fast and ill have a nice little stump in a few years.

depends what you like too, you can take the option of growing up a leader from a chopped stump or you can grow up multiple leaders after a crude chop and use an ancient pollard for inspiration and add some carving, hollows, uro

as ive done with this field maple, which is also now being further developed in my allotment
IMAG3808 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMAG3810 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMAG3812 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_8076 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

2016-04-10_09-10-13 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_0807 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

not every tree you own will develop into a master piece. but as long as you like it and it looks pretty on your bench, thats what matters really:)
 
These are the cork bark elms, however they're not fully barked up yet, this can come with vigorous growth over a number of years,
IMG_5115.jpg


in the ground
IMAG3689.jpg


i have olive stumps, beech material, some of it you could have for free tbh, a lot of it is just sitting there.

To sum up, carved trunks wont be to everyones taste, i just like what i see around me, whether it be ancient pollards, young trees with straight trunks and broom canopies, tall, elegant, slender trees with sinuous movement, heavily tapered sumo trunks whatever. variety is the spice of life.
 
Last edited:
BobbyLane said:
These are the cork bark elms, however they're not fully barked up yet, this can come with vigorous growth over a number of years,
IMG_5115.jpg


in the ground
IMAG3689.jpg


i have olive stumps, beech material, some of it you could have for free tbh, a lot of it is just sitting there.

To sum up, carved trunks wont be to everyones taste, i just like what i see around me, whether it be ancient pollards, young trees with straight trunks and broom canopies, tall, elegant, slender trees with sinuous movement, heavily tapered sumo trunks whatever. variety is the spice of life.
Click to expand...

Hello Bobby,

I feel like I'm following you or you are following me on the forums recently! To which I'm by no means complaining.

Those look great, I can see how it works and it helps my understanding a great deal, so thank you.
The carving I've seen quite a bit. It seems like you could almost turn any mass of growth in to something great, if carved correctly. Certainly another skill entirely. Personally I'd want to try both, I don't prefer or favour either method for bonsai yet :).

I agree with "not all bonsai will be masterpieces, but as long as you are happy with it..". I'd feel rather accomplished if I was working many years on some great stuff but also had trees I was very happy with, to be in a nice pot and have in the house on the dining table, on special occasions.

In terms of your offer, I will gladly bite your arm off over that.
I'm planning to visit a few places this weekend looking for material (from your inspiration in the other thread of mine recently), but if I had the opportunity to purchase some of your trees, I'd love to. Helps greatly, knowing they came from a good owner and home.
Thank you, that's a really generous offer, I really appreciate it.

Do you want to PM?
 
Cuttings, Conor -

these are all Gmelina, but just think Trident Maple, as the sub-tropical shrub, the gmelina can
produce tirdent type maple leaves.
Bark also cracks and flakes off.

Seed is also very enjoyable, you look like 25 to 30 ish, the gmelina's are in their 20's.
So a J.B. Pine image for you.
Pot is 80% sand, using a super plastic clay and glaze [ to bond it all together ] and then another glaze
to finish the exterior.

Mame' are fun to make pots for. Try you will enjoy. Much of our clay is stolen from the anthills in the
backyard lawn, then cleaned for use.
Makes it all special ------------ wouldn't you say ?

Good Day
Anthony

All cuttings -

small.jpg


From seed J.B.pine - hand made pot, about 8 years and just recently [ nervously ] repotted.

j 5.jpg
 
ConorDash said:
Hope you have a thread with some progression pics up, or going to :)
Click to expand...
Hi Conor

Luckily I keep a progression record of all of my bonsai on my Facebook page.

This is a link to my trident maples. Still no structure at all on any of them. They are still being allowed to grow freely and just before spring here in South Africa (July), I will dig them up again, sort out the roots, cut them back and let them grow again.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/KirakuBonsai/photos/?tab=album&album_id=418266231687816
 
ConorDash said:
Hello Bobby,

I feel like I'm following you or you are following me on the forums recently! To which I'm by no means complaining.

Those look great, I can see how it works and it helps my understanding a great deal, so thank you.
The carving I've seen quite a bit. It seems like you could almost turn any mass of growth in to something great, if carved correctly. Certainly another skill entirely. Personally I'd want to try both, I don't prefer or favour either method for bonsai yet :).

I agree with "not all bonsai will be masterpieces, but as long as you are happy with it..". I'd feel rather accomplished if I was working many years on some great stuff but also had trees I was very happy with, to be in a nice pot and have in the house on the dining table, on special occasions.

In terms of your offer, I will gladly bite your arm off over that.
I'm planning to visit a few places this weekend looking for material (from your inspiration in the other thread of mine recently), but if I had the opportunity to purchase some of your trees, I'd love to. Helps greatly, knowing they came from a good owner and home.
Thank you, that's a really generous offer, I really appreciate it.

Do you want to PM?
Click to expand...
Yes mate, Pm sent.
 
Dorian Fourie said:
I have another shohin (Crepe Myrtle) that I started in July 2015 and there is a progress thread on the nut

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/crepe-myrtle-lagerstroemia-indica.24829/

I also have the thread on my FB page

https://www.facebook.com/pg/KirakuBonsai/photos/?tab=album&album_id=488822001298905

Hope that helps you with yours.

View attachment 132213

Today

View attachment 132214
Click to expand...

Wow that transformation is unbelievable. Ill definitely go ahead and read the thread on that. Only 1 year and it looks so much better. Thanks for posting. Your FB has tons of pictures, wow lol.
 
ConorDash said:
Wow that transformation is unbelievable. Ill definitely go ahead and read the thread on that. Only 1 year and it looks so much better. Thanks for posting. Your FB has tons of pictures, wow lol.
Click to expand...
Thanks Conor

I find it the best way to keep record of my trees and how they progress over the years.
 
Anthony said:
Cuttings, Conor -

these are all Gmelina, but just think Trident Maple, as the sub-tropical shrub, the gmelina can
produce tirdent type maple leaves.
Bark also cracks and flakes off.

Seed is also very enjoyable, you look like 25 to 30 ish, the gmelina's are in their 20's.
So a J.B. Pine image for you.
Pot is 80% sand, using a super plastic clay and glaze [ to bond it all together ] and then another glaze
to finish the exterior.

Mame' are fun to make pots for. Try you will enjoy. Much of our clay is stolen from the anthills in the
backyard lawn, then cleaned for use.
Makes it all special ------------ wouldn't you say ?

Good Day
Anthony

All cuttings -

View attachment 132204


From seed J.B.pine - hand made pot, about 8 years and just recently [ nervously ] repotted.

View attachment 132205
Click to expand...
Do you grow the seedlings in shohin pots? Or begin in a larger pot?
 
ceriano said:
Do you grow the seedlings in shohin pots? Or begin in a larger pot?
Click to expand...

There are two ways that are usually used to get big trees in tiny pots. The first way is to grow a seedling out in a large pot or in the ground. Once it is ready to go small, you can ground layer it and separate it from the larger root system.

The other way is to start a shohin from an air layer.
 
Anthony said:
Cuttings, Conor -

these are all Gmelina, but just think Trident Maple, as the sub-tropical shrub, the gmelina can
produce tirdent type maple leaves.
Bark also cracks and flakes off.

Seed is also very enjoyable, you look like 25 to 30 ish, the gmelina's are in their 20's.
So a J.B. Pine image for you.
Pot is 80% sand, using a super plastic clay and glaze [ to bond it all together ] and then another glaze
to finish the exterior.

Mame' are fun to make pots for. Try you will enjoy. Much of our clay is stolen from the anthills in the
backyard lawn, then cleaned for use.
Makes it all special ------------ wouldn't you say ?

Good Day
Anthony

All cuttings -

View attachment 132204


From seed J.B.pine - hand made pot, about 8 years and just recently [ nervously ] repotted.

View attachment 132205
Click to expand...

Wow!! I know this is from years back but that group of Gmelina shohin is incredible 😍
 
jeremy_norbury said:
Shohin have the advantage that there's more than one way to get there...you can cut them down from a larger tree or grow them up from seedlings.

I do both and both ways have their charms.
Click to expand...
Don't forget air layering.
 
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