Specific questions about spider mites

[Japonicus]

I have 3 main points of interest/concern with spider mites this year.

History
Following an abnormally warm, and drought snow this past Winter
I have an infestation this year. + May was unusually dry too.
I thought the slow production of new grow tips on my cascade was due
to being repotted last year. Besides, this particular procumbens has in the past
been pretty slow the year following a repot, so I didn’t think too much about it
as I was focused on treating my pines for needle cast, which treatment time coincided
with when the mites were multiplying.
When I noticed the color was off, the infestation was well under way.
I grabbed my sprayer with Malathion in it that had sat all Winter in an out building
left over from last year. Bad mistake. This put a 2nd round of control out another week.
2nd round I used Insecticidal soap with decent results but not good enough.
Now I’m out of the safe soap, and purchased Bayer insect, disease and mite control.
I’m not as impressed with the mite control, as I had been in the past with Malathion
and insecticidal soap. I figured it was time to add an additional rotation to the game.
Yes I am hosing off foliage a couple times a week.

Points of concern:
1. Bringing a tree indoors to work on…
I believe all my junipers have mites, but not all are infested, still, with mites.
Any mites that drop indoors can attack other indoor plants.
I only have 2 house plants in a far bathroom, but will the mites multiply in the house
without other plants to feed on? If they can, what should I do having already brought
a couple of trees through the house and into the attached sunroom where I like to
work, out of the Sun, and to protect recent repots during storms. I usually have to
set the pot down somewhere in the house to open doors.

2. Hosing off…
Great way to help with early caught control, but can the stream be too hard and damage shoots
flexing them in a way that’s overworking them? Should I remove all plants from the porch where displayed
and treat the entire porch too? Obviously, I’m still having issues after 4 treatments.

3. Thinning…
If I don’t thin it is more difficult to control, due to dense foliage.
More foliage provides a buffer to life? I mean if there’s less foliage, the faster it could spiral down right?
Less foliage will disappear faster than thicker pads that need thinning, yet I feel like I should thin
to get best coverage of control and more kill…

 

[Japonicus]

This is a Sargent juniper. It has ghosted on me a couple of times this month, but continues the fight.

My cascade. This is the one that alerted me when it's colour was just off a little.

From underneath my longest running bonsai. Another procumbens which is displaying more dead foliage on the interior than it ever gets over Winter.
It needs thinning and I am concerned with removing foliage during this infestation.
No webbing anywhere I can see.

 

[Clicio]

I have had a bad experience with spider mites, our winters being very dry and mild.
I finally got rid of them by rotating the miticides every 10 days, and keeping the plants as humid as possible during daytime.
One of the medications I have used with success is a home mix of insecticidal soap with garlic and raw pepper, sprayed every two weeks.

 

[Japonicus]

I have had a bad experience with spider mites, our winters being very dry and mild.
I finally got rid of them by rotating the miticides every 10 days, and keeping the plants as humid as possible during daytime.
One of the medications I have used with success is a home mix of insecticidal soap with garlic and raw pepper, sprayed every two weeks.

Raw Pepper…pyrethin?

 

[Clicio]

Raw Pepper…pyrethin?

Jalapeno pepper, shredded with some garlic , added to the horticultural soap and a splash of isopropyl alcohol.
Make sure you strain the mixture before spraying it.

 

[Scorpius]

Forbid 4f. You don't need full plant coverage as it soaks into the plant. It kills the eggs. One treatment usually is all you need. Bad thing is it costs around $290 currently. If you even have one tree worth that, it pays for itself though.

I broke down and bought a bottle myself last year. Best $290 I spent. A lot of the miticdes on the market are becoming ineffective due to resistance. Forbid 4f isn't showing this yet from what I've heard.

Don't overuse it though because just like fungicides spidermites can and will become resistant with repeated use. Rotate your use of chemicals.

I use www.domyown.com.

Goodl luck. Spider mites are no joke.

 

[Japonicus]

Forbid 4f. You don't need full plant coverage as it soaks into the plant. It kills the eggs. One treatment usually is all you need. Bad thing is it costs around $290 currently. If you even have one tree worth that, it pays for itself though.

I broke down and bought a bottle myself last year. Best $290 I spent. A lot of the miticdes on the market are becoming ineffective due to resistance. Forbid 4f isn't showing this yet from what I've heard.

Don't overuse it though because just like fungicides spidermites can and will become resistant with repeated use. Rotate your use of chemicals.

I use www.domyown.com.

Goodl luck. Spider mites are no joke.

No they are no joke.
48 oz of that Forbid is $1,651.84 lol. What's the dilution rate to 1 gallon of water?

 

[Flowerhouse]

2. Hosing off…
Great way to help with early caught control, but can the stream be too hard and damage shoots
flexing them in a way that’s overworking them? Should I remove all plants from the porch where displayed
and treat the entire porch too? Obviously, I’m still having issues after 4 treatments.

The only part of your post I have experience with, so the only part I will address. I have no Juniper bonsai, but I do have 50 Old Gold junipers in a border on two sides of my property. They have been in the ground for 13 years. Some parts of the border have done really well, given that it's Wyoming and the growing season is short. In the parts that are near or under my willow trees the junipers have struggled. For the last 2 summers I have watered them with a direct hard spray to all parts of the plant, from trunk to tips, and starting last summer even the smallest junies showed nice new growth.
Before joining Bonsainut and reading plenty about spraying junies to keep the bugs at bay, I was afraid to spray them directly and was watering just the soil as much as possible. They like the spray!

 

[Japonicus]

The only part of your post I have experience with, so the only part I will address. I have no Juniper bonsai, but I do have 50 Old Gold junipers in a border on two sides of my property. They have been in the ground for 13 years. Some parts of the border have done really well, given that it's Wyoming and the growing season is short. In the parts that are near or under my willow trees the junipers have struggled. For the last 2 summers I have watered them with a direct hard spray to all parts of the plant, from trunk to tips, and starting last summer even the smallest junies showed nice new growth.
Before joining Bonsainut and reading plenty about spraying junies to keep the bugs at bay, I was afraid to spray them directly and was watering just the soil as much as possible. They like the spray!

Thanks @Flowerhouse
I usually either stand back 10-12 feet on jet from the garden nozzle, or on shower, at point blank.
The golden junipers are quite a bit different with floppy foliage, or at least the gold tipped and gold lace ones I have.
Its just I know how easy it is to overwork procumbens shoots when wiring, then seeing the foliage
“break over” while spraying, just makes me wonder ya know. The hose is much more than any storm we’d ever get.
I’ve always hosed mine off now n then, more frequent now.

 

[Scorpius]

No they are no joke.
48 oz of that Forbid is $1,651.84 lol. What's the dilution rate to 1 gallon of water?

Get the small bottle. Lol. If I remember correctly one teaspoon per gallon. It doesn't take much.

 

[cbroad]

Spinosad worked very well for me and killed my spider mites within a few hours. This was on ficus grown indoors under lights, and a check with a microscope confirmed death.

Spinosad can be found in a few different products, I used Bonide's "Jack's dead bug."
Spinosad is also considered organic, as it's a bacteria that attacks the spider mites when they munch on the foliage.

 

[Japonicus]

Spinosad worked very well for me and killed my spider mites within a few hours. This was on ficus grown indoors under lights, and a check with a microscope confirmed death.

Spinosad can be found in a few different products, I used Bonide's "Jack's dead bug."
Spinosad is also considered organic, as it's a bacteria that attacks the spider mites when they munch on the foliage.

I saw this at Lowes, but had opted for the Bayer miticide.

Having just added a 3rd chemical into my rotation, (even though I had used
a batch of Malathion I had mixed the previous year that was exposed to sub freezing temps)
I am trying to find information on the Specific questions in the OP.
I know the products I’m using are compatible with JWP, fir, and other trees in my collection.

It is possible I am getting control. Yesterday I began thinning my longest running bonsai.
When I did the paper test in multiple locations, I got no smears, saw no movement.
Today I will check other subjects to see if control is near. Pretty sure having ran out
of my concentrate insecticidal soap after 1 application, and using an old mix of
Malathion is why I got the infestation. Fingers crossed, I am getting control.

 

[hemmy]

I only have 2 house plants in a far bathroom, but will the mites multiply in the house
without other plants to feed on?

I wouldn’t think so, mites aren’t fliers and need another vector for transport. They’d need host plants to feed and breed.

Great way to help with early caught control, but can the stream be too hard and damage shoots
flexing them in a way that’s overworking them? Should I remove all plants from the porch where displayed
and treat the entire porch too? Obviously, I’m still having issues after 4 treatments.

I had a spray nozzle with a setting that sprays about a dozen streams ~1/16” in diameter. It is pretty powerful and when I was using it on junipers to spray off crawler stages of scale, I would support the foliage in my open palm and blast it. Trying to rotate the foliage and sprayer to get all sides. If you were working the trees in the porch area it probably wouldn’t hurt to wipe down the benches and floor.

If I don’t thin it is more difficult to control, due to dense foliage.
More foliage provides a buffer to life? I mean if there’s less foliage, the faster it could spiral down right?

I would thin to the point that you normally would thin to for light penetration, aesthetics, etc.


Google Malathion and spider mites. There are several articles on its poor performance. It seems like the main issue is that it is very effective at removing all the beneficial predators of mites. For this reason, I’d also stay away from any Bayer 3-in-1 that has a neonicotinoid.

Forbid is pretty powerful as it can move through the foliage and also kills eggs. There aren’t many miticides that get the eggs. For bad infestations of high dollar trees, I’d use it rotated with Floramite and Abamectin. Each has a slightly different mode of action to limit resistance.

Forbid will kill other insects (whiteflies) but is not aggressive on beneficials as other general insecticides.

For just insect soaps, I’d use them every 3 days to stay on top of newly hatched mites. If you were having 95F+ hot weather, I’d consider moving them to afternoon shade since the repeated applications could limit transpiration.

Once you get it under control, I would advocate for the use of beneficial mites and generalist predators for future control rather than broadcast spraying of general insecticides.

 

[Japonicus]

I wouldn’t think so, mites aren’t fliers and need another vector for transport. They’d need host plants to feed and breed.


I had a spray nozzle with a setting that sprays about a dozen streams ~1/16” in diameter. It is pretty powerful and when I was using it on junipers to spray off crawler stages of scale, I would support the foliage in my open palm and blast it. Trying to rotate the foliage and sprayer to get all sides. If you were working the trees in the porch area it probably wouldn’t hurt to wipe down the benches and floor.


I would thin to the point that you normally would thin to for light penetration, aesthetics, etc.


Google Malathion and spider mites. There are several articles on its poor performance. It seems like the main issue is that it is very effective at removing all the beneficial predators of mites. For this reason, I’d also stay away from any Bayer 3-in-1 that has a neonicotinoid.

Forbid is pretty powerful as it can move through the foliage and also kills eggs. There aren’t many miticides that get the eggs. For bad infestations of high dollar trees, I’d use it rotated with Floramite and Abamectin. Each has a slightly different mode of action to limit resistance.

Forbid will kill other insects (whiteflies) but is not aggressive on beneficials as other general insecticides.

For just insect soaps, I’d use them every 3 days to stay on top of newly hatched mites. If you were having 95F+ hot weather, I’d consider moving them to afternoon shade since the repeated applications could limit transpiration.

Once you get it under control, I would advocate for the use of beneficial mites and generalist predators for future control rather than broadcast spraying of general insecticides.

Thank you @hemmy
That pretty much covers the gambit
Ive done that, supporting the foliage in one hand while spraying, but not recently as
One, my 1” hose is terribly stiff and I have so many plants about the porch
its like a bull in a China shop. Also, it’s not nearly as isolated as in the past
and trying to get every plant done in this manner is a lot more work.

I wonder how long mites can live indoors without a host plant to live on?

Beneficial mites, obviously they’re not going to affect the color of the foliage
as non beneficial mites. I have a 30x loupe but how would one know by using
the paper test, when Not under pressure of bad mites, if they had bad mites
and spray to kill . I don’t want to get to the point that the color of the foliage is
my indicator. I want to get ahead of the game. So in the future, I do a paper test,
is see the movement, I get the smears…then what?
Oh, another thing. Normally in the past I’ve seen wasps active when there were mites.
Not this time. They’re active, just not on my trees…even before treatment began.
Again, thank you for the detailed response, and additional info on the
Forbid that @Scorpius suggested.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I don't seem to get them. I used to use Safer Soap but since switching to Bayer Tree and Shrub

...I've not been bothered by bugs of any sort. Yeah, I know...imidocloprid.

I also hose off all junipers every day. Some others get wet too.

if a juniper looks wishy washy, it gets Neem Oil.

 

[Japonicus]

I’d also stay away from any Bayer 3-in-1 that has a neonicotinoid.

This one is different from that I believe.


I am happy to report that the last application (finally getting 2 applications of a control
in succession) has all but wiped out the mites.
I did the paper test on about 8 subjects with only a few smears, most with none.
The Sargent juniper most affected has a few, but I opted to use fish emulsion
on the soil today instead of hosing off. I usually feed on Sundays weather permitting
but yesterday I hosed off.
After re-reading your post I see you didn’t say “beneficial mites”, you said beneficial predators. Gotchya.

 

[hemmy]

I wonder how long mites can live indoors without a host plant to live on?

Beneficial mites, obviously they’re not going to affect the color of the foliage
as non beneficial mites. I have a 30x loupe but how would one know by using
the paper test, when Not under pressure of bad mites, if they had bad mites
and spray to kill .

According to the Google, at most 7-11 days without food.

The beneficial mites are only predators. But some also eat pollen. I’d have trouble using a 30x loupe, the field of view so small and distance short. I prefer 10x.

Supposedly, the color of the “streak” on the white paper as you ran your hand across showed predators versus pests (green). But that wasn’t very reliable for me. In my experience, the speed and behavior was the indicator. On the white paper, the beneficial mites were fast and always on the move. The pest spider mites were much slower. Also, in SoCal I had the two-spotted spider mite pests which were distinctive to identify. Of course for beneficial mites to continue to work, they need spider mites to eat. My go to generalist was green lacewings which I would buy once or twice a year. At my new location, I was out at night and saw quite a few adults. So maybe I can encourage the existing population with flowers and a greener landscape.

 

[Scorpius]

Imidocloprid actually worsens spider mite infestations. It's like crack for them. I stopped using imidocloprid this year after the mite problem I had last year. No mites so far this year and it's been very dry in my area.

 

[Japonicus]

Well, IDK if this is due to the spray or not.
1st application of the miticide I skipped my JWPs but did spray all other pines I have particularly EWPs as guinea pigs.
2nd application I hit 2 JWP seedlings, this Azuma Goyo, and lightly on my 1st JWP.
I started another thread a couple days ago, but no reply.

Includes this years needles.
I love the foliage on this tree.
Could be disease. Watering is closely monitored for its history with me.

 

[JBS]

Chinese Hackberry showing leaf damage, and visual confirmation of the red spider mites….recommendations??? Anyone use neem oil? Thanks