So, I guess I'm doing a JBP-in-colander study…
- Thread starter parhamr
- Start date
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Don't pluck my eye out!Pai MEI !!!..... wretched dog !!!!
parhamr
Omono
Some of the non-colander JBP also have good, low branching
bonhe
Masterpiece
="Eric Group, post:
what if he wanted to grow larger trees? Why would there be any requirement or need to have nodes close to the nebari?
Even if he wants to grow smaller trees.
Second- seedling cutting is not the only way to get low nodes on JBP seedlings.
I agree 100%. The shoots can easily emerge in the lower trunk without seedling cutting. Besides the reason Mr. Kusida Matsuo do seedling cutting is to create the good nebari, not to induce the short internode in the lower trunk. Physiologically speaking, if one cut the root, the internode is supposed to be longer due to disruption of auxin/cytokinine ratio!
I grew a couple dozen JBP from seed last year and having never done the seedling cutting technique, I was a bit timid and just removed the tap roots, leaving radial roots on most... I also kept them in pretty small pots which slowed the growth a bit and every one of them has new buds popping within the first inch off of last year's growth.
Same here!
I am transferring them into larger colanders and wiring this Spring,
The wiring action is the one to induce more new buds !!
but there is always more than one way to skin a cat...
I totally agree. This is a way should be to get a new invention, otherwise .....!!!
One of my friends recently told me a story of his granddaughter. Her math score suddenly went down. Her mom was surprised because she always got straight A. Later on, her mom found out that the new math teacher did not give her a good score because she did not solve the math question as her teacher's direction, even though she got right answer in the proper time!!!! Too bad!
Bonhe
what if he wanted to grow larger trees? Why would there be any requirement or need to have nodes close to the nebari?
Even if he wants to grow smaller trees.
Second- seedling cutting is not the only way to get low nodes on JBP seedlings.
I agree 100%. The shoots can easily emerge in the lower trunk without seedling cutting. Besides the reason Mr. Kusida Matsuo do seedling cutting is to create the good nebari, not to induce the short internode in the lower trunk. Physiologically speaking, if one cut the root, the internode is supposed to be longer due to disruption of auxin/cytokinine ratio!
I grew a couple dozen JBP from seed last year and having never done the seedling cutting technique, I was a bit timid and just removed the tap roots, leaving radial roots on most... I also kept them in pretty small pots which slowed the growth a bit and every one of them has new buds popping within the first inch off of last year's growth.
Same here!
I am transferring them into larger colanders and wiring this Spring,
The wiring action is the one to induce more new buds !!
but there is always more than one way to skin a cat...
I totally agree. This is a way should be to get a new invention, otherwise .....!!!
One of my friends recently told me a story of his granddaughter. Her math score suddenly went down. Her mom was surprised because she always got straight A. Later on, her mom found out that the new math teacher did not give her a good score because she did not solve the math question as her teacher's direction, even though she got right answer in the proper time!!!! Too bad!
Ouch!!!
Bonhe
bonhe
Masterpiece
They are looking great!
If I was you, I would give some pot with humic to compare!
Good luck with your experiment.
Bonhe
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I will be curious to see if you notice any difference between the performance of the seedlings in the smaller grain mix on the left, versus the coarser grain on the right.
I lost about ten two-year seedlings last year in small pond baskets due to heat/drying out. I used mix like on the left. I believe the issue was not the mix, but the pond basket size - I think the small baskets are just too small during our dry summers. In the future I will either use large baskets, grow large numbers of seedlings in a propagation flat, or simply do what you are doing - start them in a loose mix in a standard black nursery pot until they are ready to move.
bonhe
Masterpiece
Bonsai Nut, post:
I will be curious to see if you notice any difference between the performance of the seedlings in the smaller grain mix on the left, versus the coarser grain on the right.
The smaller size supposes to keep more moisture than the bigger one.
I lost about ten two-year seedlings last year in small pond baskets due to heat/drying out. I used mix like on the left. I believe the issue was not the mix, but the pond basket size - I think the small baskets are just too small during our dry summers.
Sorry to hear! It is weird because I used 8" basket for all KBP seedlings, and some of them were used 100% turface. I did not lose any! My area is much hotter and drier than yours. It may be something else which caused your lost.
Bonhe
I will be curious to see if you notice any difference between the performance of the seedlings in the smaller grain mix on the left, versus the coarser grain on the right.
The smaller size supposes to keep more moisture than the bigger one.
I lost about ten two-year seedlings last year in small pond baskets due to heat/drying out. I used mix like on the left. I believe the issue was not the mix, but the pond basket size - I think the small baskets are just too small during our dry summers.
Sorry to hear! It is weird because I used 8" basket for all KBP seedlings, and some of them were used 100% turface. I did not lose any! My area is much hotter and drier than yours. It may be something else which caused your lost.
Bonhe
parhamr
Omono
The soils vary because I had already gone through about 200 gallons of sifted soils 
Some trees are fully lava and pumice. Others have Boon's Mix. Further more have old soil, diatomite gravel, and screened pine bark.
I'm also variously applying fertilizers. I do have humic acid that I've added to some of my Anderson propagation trays.
Some trees are fully lava and pumice. Others have Boon's Mix. Further more have old soil, diatomite gravel, and screened pine bark.
I'm also variously applying fertilizers. I do have humic acid that I've added to some of my Anderson propagation trays.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I think it may be the piece size of my pumice. When they were in turface I didn't have any problems with JBP in the small baskets. But I transplanted them to pumice and I think the piece size might have been too big. I looked at the dead ones and the roots around the exterior of the root ball were all dead/rotted.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
NEW Information -
2013
http://www.gardenmyths.com/what-is-humus/
2016
http://www.gardenmyths.com/humus-does-not-exist-says-new-study/#more-3384
Very interesting Site.
Good Day
Anthony
2013
http://www.gardenmyths.com/what-is-humus/
2016
http://www.gardenmyths.com/humus-does-not-exist-says-new-study/#more-3384
Very interesting Site.
Good Day
Anthony
Did you put them in straight pumice in colanders?
And you stated "the roots around the exterior of the root ball were all dead/rotted".
So, when you transplanted them, what root work did you do?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
These were small 2 or 3 year-olds. I didn't slip pot them - I gently separated the roots from the prior soil, and then potted them. I did not spray the roots with water.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
I could post 100 or more peer-reviewed scientific journals that say your website is incorrect. So while interesting, it's very much wrong.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
@Anthony this will get you started. Northeastern University’s Humic Acid Research Group http://nuweb5.neu.edu/hagroup/
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
@milehigh_7
Clyde.
since you have better information than I have, why not take up your point with the host of that
site. Would make for interesting reading.
Cannot presently get into the Research site. Will keep trying and thank you.
Good Day
Anthony
Clyde.
since you have better information than I have, why not take up your point with the host of that
site. Would make for interesting reading.
Cannot presently get into the Research site. Will keep trying and thank you.
Good Day
Anthony
bonhe
Masterpiece
It is strange. The roots are rotted = too much water. The turface supposes to keep more moisture and less air than pumice. Maybe it had too much powder in your pumice?
So you are thinking that roots be dehydrated due to the 1st contact with pumice?
Bonhe
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I mispoke. I don't know why I wrote "dead/rotted". I mean to say "dead/dried". They were not wet or rotted, LOL I have no idea why I wrote that.
When I moved them from turface to pumice, they died. I think it was a combination of the small pond basket, the large size of the pumice, and my watering regimen did not stay up with the hot weather and the rate of evaporation. I had them in the sunniest / most exposed part of my benches where I keep my pines. Perhaps they would have done better under a little bit of protection?
bonhe
Masterpiece
Thanks for clarification. It makes more sense now.
The lesson: with the small pot, we need to use smaller particle (lava, pumice, turface, pine bark, academia, etc..) to avoid the dehydration.
Bonhe
BNut,
Yes, it does make more sense now. Pumice is a very "dry" soil. Large particles, even more so. Colanders are "dry" containers. Southern California is hot and dry. Full sun dries out pots. Small containers are dryer than large ones.
Things like this happen, and people draw false conclusions! They'll say, "pumice is no good", or, "colanders are no good", or "repotting is no good", or whatever. And we know all those conclusions are erroneous. Whenever we make a drastic change to a tree, aftercare is important. I'm sure the trees would have been fine if you had watered them 4 times a day! (Maybe not practical, but that's why people install timer systems.)
Better luck next time!
Yes, it does make more sense now. Pumice is a very "dry" soil. Large particles, even more so. Colanders are "dry" containers. Southern California is hot and dry. Full sun dries out pots. Small containers are dryer than large ones.
Things like this happen, and people draw false conclusions! They'll say, "pumice is no good", or, "colanders are no good", or "repotting is no good", or whatever. And we know all those conclusions are erroneous. Whenever we make a drastic change to a tree, aftercare is important. I'm sure the trees would have been fine if you had watered them 4 times a day! (Maybe not practical, but that's why people install timer systems.)
Better luck next time!
parhamr
Omono
Engorged
