Shady's Gardenias

[ShadyStump]

I've decided I like gardenias, have seen enough examples to feel they can make fairly decent, and have enough of them Incase I screw up to feel I can safely start a thread for my experiences with them.

I don't have much to look at right now, but today's repot of a Walmart clearance find was enough of a chore to justify recording.
I found it for around $10, obviously having seen better days.

It looks like one that got blown off the shelves in their parking lot garden enclosure, falling out of its pot, and not found before the end of the day, or maybe just suffered in the dry heat around here. The few original leaves it had left were HUGE, so I'm assuming it it was grown in fairly dark spot in a greenhouse somewhere. It's spent the last few weeks recuperating in my high humidity zone near the vegetable garden, but is growing new foliage again. I decided it was time, before the cooler wetter weather in the forecast left us again.

It's severely root bound, or I should say, "they." Looks to be four trunks, the smallest as big around as my thumb, the largest almost twice that.
I'm all out of spare buckets at the moment, so here we go trying to clean out the root ball with a chopstick.
Yup, four of them, and it took me an hour to get to just THIS point.

Finally! Split into twosies after untangling the roots like Christmas tree lights. I didn't want to just cut them apart, not in the state they've been in.
I sprayed the roots down with water periodically to keep them moist and wash away the cheap nursery soil.

AND done! Or at least halfway. Still the other two to separate.

I potted them all in SafeTSorb mixed with peat, coffee grounds, and coco coir. Not the best soil, but it should keep them healthy. Trimmed up the dead branches and anything that would've become problematic style wise, and stuck a couple cuttings.
They're now resting in my mini greenhouse.


Thoughts and critiques all was welcome.

 

[penumbra]

Do any of your gardenia survive outside in your climate?
I am already a bit too crowded inside.

 

[ShadyStump]

Do any of your gardenia survive outside in your climate?
I am already a bit too crowded inside.

I haven't tried yet, but I may this winter if I feel like I have enough to experiment on one.
These ones from today are most certainly not a cold hardy variety. Though nothing on the label when I got them said exactly what variety they are it did say hardy to zone 10, which doesn't really count as hardy at all. The others I have weren't even labeled gardenia, so I have no clue what variety. My guess would be something closer to what you find in gardens in the southeast US, maybe hardy to zone 8, light frosts and warm snows.
Definitely warrants more research on my end.

 

[Carol 83]

I love my Gardenias as well. Bought a couple of the braided ones at Lowes last year, just because they were my mom's favorite. They did really well in an eastern exposure last year with a little supplemental light, I had blooms all winter. I did buy a bonsai Gardenia a bit back, albeit one from Brussel's with a skinny trunk, but it's blooming. I seriously doubt they would survive your winters or mine outside. I wouldn't try it unless you want to lose them.

 

[ShadyStump]

I love my Gardenias as well. Bought a couple of the braided ones at Lowes last year, just because they were my mom's favorite. They did really well in an eastern exposure last year with a little supplemental light, I had blooms all winter. I did buy a bonsai Gardenia a bit back, albeit one from Brussel's with a skinny trunk, but it's blooming. I seriously doubt they would survive your winters or mine outside. I wouldn't try it unless you want to lose them.

I think you're probably right.
It's possible to get peppers to go dormant and survive here as long as you cut them back and mulch them in really well, so it might be possible to keep a gardenia in my little greenhouse so long as it's in the right place.
I stuck some cuttings today, and may do more, so might have a couple to spare to find out.

 

[ShadyStump]

The 4 in the original post are quite well, and were all putting on new growth in the mini greenhouse, but anything that's been outside has suffered. The intense sun at this altitude (which is nothing compared to the high country) has caused significant foliage discoloration in all the new growth. Not Scorched or anything, so I know they're getting sufficient water and humidity, and they've been fertilized lightly on a routine basis. Just VERY VERY lightly colored, and soft and flimsy. That's why I'm thinking sun exposure.



The worst cases have been moved to the greenhouse which only gets one or two hours of direct sun and is in bright shade the rest of the time, and all others now reside under my new bench where they get morning sun then bright indirect light, and the runoff from watering keeps them humid.

It looks almost like N deficiency, but they were fertilized with the same mix in the same batch as the others that aren't quite so bad, though these are mostly in potting soil still. They were doing better before the heat started.
I guess I'm just second guessing myself.

 

[Colorado]

I don’t know much about gardenia. I used to have one that was really pretty and healthy over the summer. Let it freeze and get snowed on once and it promptly died. I think I used to keep it in morning sun/afternoon shade, but can’t really remember as it was a few years ago.

The flowers are to die for!

 

[ShadyStump]

I don’t know much about gardenia. I used to have one that was really pretty and healthy over the summer. Let it freeze and get snowed on once and it promptly died. I think I used to keep it in morning sun/afternoon shade, but can’t really remember as it was a few years ago.

The flowers are to die for!

I LOVE these things! The foliage itself is what kept getting my attention at first, but the understated flowers and incredible scent were the cherry on top.

My reading said direct sun, but I've learned that that is relative. Direct sun in GA is not quite the same as in Colorado.
No losses so far, but I've had no blooms all summer. I fear my dreams of placing in next year's county fair doomed.
Oh well, there's always 2024, and '25, and...
I'll get there.

 

[waydeo]

I have 2 gardenias in big pots next to my pool . They survived unprotected last winter and the winter before, then they lost all their leaves in a late frost. I thought they were dead, but in late May they started putting out new leaves. This winter I plan to cover them with frost blankets. I'm in zone 7.

 

[ShadyStump]

I have 2 gardenias in big pots next to my pool . They survived unprotected last winter and the winter before, then they lost all their leaves in a late frost. I thought they were dead, but in late May they started putting out new leaves. This winter I plan to cover them with frost blankets. I'm in zone 7.

Good to know.
I know I have two different varieties, so I'm hoping one is a bit hardier. That would make allot of room inside over winter.
Still, only going to test on one this year if there's a spare.

 

[Carol 83]

Mine are in full sun, but IL is not the same as Colorado. They have been blooming all summer. Maybe a touch of Miracid. I think if you leave any outside for the winter, you will lose them.

 

[ShadyStump]

Mine are in full sun, but IL is not the same as Colorado. They have been blooming all summer. Maybe a touch of Miracid. I think if you leave any outside for the winter, you will lose them.

I've been hitting them every couple weeks with a low dose of generic miracid.
I wondered if it could be chlorosis and maybe some chelated iron would help, but that doesn't quite feel right.

They've all been repotted this year, the newer ones just over a month ago, and I suspected that's why they haven't been blooming.

 

[Potawatomi13]

AFAIK these not Winter hardy here but sub tropical.

 

[ShadyStump]

I just realized something that might be the cause of the discoloration in my foliage.

It's only the ones in mostly organic potting soil, which I used because it's all I had at the time I repotted those ones. Except I reused the original nursery soil mixed with similar stuff from other repotting projects and compost/mulch, and mixed in sand to help with drainage. Some of the old nursery soil I believe may have had that osmocote type stuff in it. I thought it was all spent some time ago, but perhaps not.

My working theory right now is that the alkali based nutrients from the osmocote may be neutralizing the acidity of the soil, and preventing nutrient uptake. ANOTHER repotting project may be the answer, but I'm afraid of taxing the plants too hard. Would applying a temporary acidifying agent - vinegar or something - help long enough for the osmocote to burn out and for them to recover do you think?

 

[nuttiest]

vinegar would not last long it is the wrong type of acid. To lower your soil ph use one of the sulfates... magnesium sulfate (aka epsom salt) iron sulfate, sulfate of potash, aluminum. Then if there is an improvement it means nutrients were locked up due to ph, and you can use something for longer term like sulfur granules, etc.
The miracid is not working for whatever reason. Did it get wet possibly?

 

[penumbra]

It seems unlikely that residual fertilizer would be strong enough to cause this effect, but I am just speculating. It does sound and look like the pH factor is too high and perhaps more than a low dose of a generic Miracid type fertilizer can rectify. Are you watering with this fertilizer or are you spraying it on the foliage? When I spray it I generally see results within a few days. I also water the fertilizer in with my acid loving plants, many of which have been osmocoted as well.

 

[ShadyStump]

It seems unlikely that residual fertilizer would be strong enough to cause this effect, but I am just speculating. It does sound and look like the pH factor is too high and perhaps more than a low dose of a generic Miracid type fertilizer can rectify. Are you watering with this fertilizer or are you spraying it on the foliage? When I spray it I generally see results within a few days. I also water the fertilizer in with my acid loving plants, many of which have been osmocoted as well.

Generally watering the soil, but a bit always gets on the foliage. I'll try spraying when I get to it this weekend.

vinegar would not last long it is the wrong type of acid. To lower your soil ph use one of the sulfates... magnesium sulfate (aka epsom salt) iron sulfate, sulfate of potash, aluminum. Then if there is an improvement it means nutrients were locked up due to ph, and you can use something for longer term like sulfur granules, etc.
The miracid is not working for whatever reason. Did it get wet possibly?

The bag hasn't gotten wet, but the ziplock seal on it is torn so it doesn't seal properly. But I don't think that's it.
I have Epsom salt just for my plants, but I guess the fact that it's SALT kept me from thinking it's also sulfur. I'll try this when I check them after work.

 

[bwaynef]

I love gardenias but haven't delved deeply into them as bonsai. I've got several (8?) overgrown shrubs in THE STUPIDEST location in my yard that I keep meaning to "relocate" (which is code for pot-up that even my wife knows now). Earlier this year, #littlestgirl (10) cut some gardenia flowers and put them in a vase on the dinner table. Of the 5, 3 rooted ...inside ...on the dinner table ...in-flower, so she's pretty excited about that.

I have some rooted cuttings in 4" pots that I haven't touched much this year. They're tucked away in a spot that's hard to reach. I've found that if they're constantly managed (oops for this year!) the internodes can be shortened and the leaves can be reduced DRASTICALLY. I have some G. radicans & G. jasminoides cuttings I'm considering putting in the ground this winter/spring to see if I can get some trunks. (I've been meaning to do it for years so don't hold your breath.)

I haven't noticed any discoloration on mine. They're in an AkaPumiLa mix w/ Florikan 120-day fert (osmo-cote but for nurseries) on them.

If you want a substitute for the vinegar that might be a little longer-lasting in the soil, you can get some pH Down from a fish store.

 

[LanceMac10]

In my experience, these hate tap-water. Collected rain water can help but pH of rain water can still be higher than they like. Try some Miracid or a diluted serum of Epsom salt as mentioned.

Healthy Gardenia leaf pretty sturdy and deep green. I would avoid using anything that's not really for plants.....

DIY soil isn't helping and remember, in your location they will need winter protection.

Good luck with them, flowers are pretty AND smell great.

 

[Carol 83]

flowers are pretty AND smell great

Yes, not like old ladies!!!!