Scots Pine... what are these and what should I be doing with them?

[butlern]

New to pines (and horticulture, in general).

Are these buds to be manipulated this summer (reduced to two), if my goal is to let the pines grow freely to mature trunk but also at the same time reduce multiple junctions with the goal of limiting future swelling and reverse taper?

 

[butlern]

That picture in previous post is representative of growth patterns on all three of the pines I picked up this summer:

 

[butlern]

They all sort of look the same right now...

Thanks in advance

Noah

 

[Paradox]

Hi Noah

Leave them be until October, then pick two opposing ones that are about the same size and remove all the other buds.
Dont pick the largest to leave unless it is in a weak area of the tree. If its a strong area, pick two of the smaller (weaker) buds

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Paradox nailed it. I love that explanation. Succinct but informative. These are the beginning of those whorls you hear about butlern. Those are incredibly healthy trees.

 

[butlern]

Thanks for the clear explanation (and timing details!)

 

[Dorky_gearhead]

From what i understand about pines, you have a give and take situation going on. You want max growth to thicken the trunk, but at the same time you don't want the top so thick it shades out the lower/inner branches. Maybe next year I'll get my hands on some kind of pine. Till then all I can do is read read read

 

[sorce]

Do you know what the "wiring diagram" is for this tree? Trees?

I only ask because while these answers are correct....
I feel you can make it a lot more complex than that.

Have you identified any fully sacrificial branches?
Those can be left mostly intact.

Anything beyond what is to be kept that is not ruining a transition point can be left intact.

I'd want to keep that one juicy bud in that pic if the situation called for it....
But then....
I wouldn't want five bleeding holes surrounding it.

Maybe remove the bottom ones now...
And remove the top ones before they go in spring.

I'm not positive...
But I don't think removing them now or till spring is going to trigger any response in the tree.
I would risk a triggered reaction over leaving five bleeding holes around a keeper bud any day.

Too....
Have a look at an older section of the tree that looks to have started like that....see what it did...
You May be able to grow some parts out an entire season before any swelling or reverse taper occurs.

You got MAD health to play with!

Experiment!

Sorce

 

[BeebsBonsai]

You got MAD health to play with!

Experiment!

Sorce[/QUOTE]

The nursery he got it from kept this tree very very happy, didn't it? Buds set that heavily this early? That tree was a well-oiled machine when he got it. As Sorce said, experiment. However, Sorce, is the typical time to do bud selection late fall or late winter? I had always thought the best time was to do the reduction was after the risk of freezing in your winter storage space was eliminated. This is for my personal knowledge now. LOL

 

[BeebsBonsai]

From what i understand about pines, you have a give and take situation going on. You want max growth to thicken the trunk, but at the same time you don't want the top so thick it shades out the lower/inner branches. Maybe next year I'll get my hands on some kind of pine. Till then all I can do is read read read

Search "Ryan Neil Lecture on Pines" on youtube and watch both videos. He has an excellent and poignant discussion about how they grow, the different types, how that changes the way you prune and decandle, and how you can promote back-budding. Two of the most informative youtube videos on pines I have seen. In addition, he has a website, Bonsai Mirai, which is a subscription-based streaming platform and a new stream every week. There are probably a good 4-6 hours of pine work in those archives.

In addition, Bjorn Bjorholm Bonsai is a great channel. Ma-Ke Bonsai is pretty good too, although his videos are relatively short. Bonsai Empire has three courses on Bonsai, and Walter Pall has a lot of discussions on youtube. Many about design, but also many others about pruning practices, soils, etc. Graham Potter too. LOL. I have watched them all. If you are looking for books, Eastern Leaf, Stone Lantern, and Bonsai Outlet have everything you need. Hope all this helps. It sure helped and continues to help me.

 

[M. Frary]

In the picture I would take off all of the buds but the 2 smallest.
Even if you're growing it out. So you don't get a bulge at that spot.
You can remove them anytime after they've set. Late fall to early spring. Spring is the time for me because I don't like my trees going into the 4 month deep freeze in a compromised state.

 

[Guy Vitale]

In the picture I would take off all of the buds but the 2 smallest.
Even if you're growing it out. So you don't get a bulge at that spot.
You can remove them anytime after they've set. Late fall to early spring. Spring is the time for me because I don't like my trees going into the 4 month deep freeze in a compromised state.

I tend to leave 3 buds depending on if I'm still growing out the trunk, leave the strongest bud to sacrifice 1-2 years later and 2 similar sized buds for future branching. This should minimize the bulge effect and thicken up the trunk a bit more quickly.

 

[butlern]

I didn't expect these to elongate this summer.

Is this unexpected?

 

[Adair M]

If the tree is really healthy, you can get a second flush in one growing season.

 

[Paradox]

If the tree is really healthy, you can get a second flush in one growing season.

On a scots pine?

 

[butlern]

On a scots pine?

sort of what I was thinking... unless these are not really scots and are some sort of double flush pine species.

 

[GGB]

Damn! Those trees are happy! I get one flush per season and your the one that's new to horticulture? Right on man

 

[butlern]

Yeah, well... we'll see how they do moving forward while in my possession.

I got them this summer from a local club member, someone who doesn't really engage much in club activities, and someone who's relatively subdued and not all that talkative.

When I picked these pines up from him (he was clearing space in on his benches), I commented on the soil... I said, "I thought pines do best in pumice/lava and little else... you know, basically 100% inorganic."

He glared at me and communicated this..."50% coarse potting soil, 50% perlite, and a shit ton of Osmocote is what me and my pines love. Good luck to you."

Basically that was the most I've ever heard him say during any single interaction with him. I reply, "Ha! OK. I'll take that information and your pines. Thank you, sir!"

This, in part, is why I've been seeking feedback here, rather than trying to squeeze info out of someone who doesn't care to be squeezed.

I should snap some pictures of his fully mature, trained pines in real pots next time I help him free up space on his benches. Ridiculously beautiful. And it's all perlite and potting soil.... oh, and just a bit more than a pinch of Osmocote.

Go figure!

 

[Adair M]

Yes, on a Scots. I've had JWP make a second flush, too.

Especially when fertilized heavily.

And it sounds like these Scots were heavily fed.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Now the only question is do they have enough time to grow and harden off before the cold of winter sets in. I would think they do, but it is a bit late in the season for that extension for us northern Midwesterners