Scots Pine seedling

[Rodrigo]

I'm growing this Scots Pine that's a couple months shy of a year old and last year it thew out a whorl of 4 branches very close together. It's great that they're so low and I know I need to make sure to take care of them but I don't know if I need to worry about swelling on a tree this young- should I leave them for now?



It was reported about a week ago from a turface/perlite mix in this same basket to Akadama lava and pumice.

 

[my nellie]

The dreadful whorls... I know what you mean, but I cannot help with suggestions...
I hope some pine expert member will chime in to guide you

 

[Rodrigo]

The dreadful whorls... I know what you mean, but I cannot help with suggestions...
I hope some pine expert member will chime in to guide you

I know right! I know they're undesirable but I'm not sure what to do about it right now!

Thanks for reply anyways!

 

[Rodrigo]

Well looking back at the last pictures of this tree it's crazy how much it grew.

I ended up leaving the whorl for now and all four branches grew substantially. The wiring that I did before my last post gave the trunk pretty decent movement really down low.

It's been growing really well, hasn't stopped growing during the summer at all. There are several branches popping down low on the trunk, which is nice, but it makes my original whorl problem even worse.. It's kind of hard to see what's what but there's probably 9 branches of various sizes all within one inch on the trunk.

The apex has 3 strong candles, as do the rest of the branches.
Top:
The white spots are residue from a recent Mancozeb spraying


As of now I don't see inverse taper but I know that I have to take care of that soon or it'll be a problem. I'm just not sure which branches to remove, the thicker ones or the new ones that are just now coming in. Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[my nellie]

Hello!

... ...There are several branches popping down low on the trunk, which is nice, but it makes my original whorl problem even worse.. It's kind of hard to see what's what but there's probably 9 branches of various sizes all within one inch on the trunk... ...

These low branches are needed for the trunk to get taper.
You need to keep and grow them.
The same goes for the apex, too. You keep it and let it grow tall as sacrifice.
Have you come to a decision about which type of tree you are aiming to? A shohin perhaps? A literati maybe?
Your decision will determine your growing plan, I think...
As about the whorl I think that you could choose one of the branches to be your next trunk section (after "x" years and removal of the sacrifice apex) and wire it upwards and another one to be your main first branch.

However, like I said in the past I am still in the kindergarten school of Pines so take what I say with a pinch of salt....
I am sure @Riversedgebonsai Frank or @Brian Van Fleet Brian or Adair @Adair M will give you sound advice as soon as they read your thread...

 

[River's Edge]

Well looking back at the last pictures of this tree it's crazy how much it grew.
View attachment 206409
I ended up leaving the whorl for now and all four branches grew substantially. The wiring that I did before my last post gave the trunk pretty decent movement really down low.
View attachment 206410
It's been growing really well, hasn't stopped growing during the summer at all. There are several branches popping down low on the trunk, which is nice, but it makes my original whorl problem even worse.. It's kind of hard to see what's what but there's probably 9 branches of various sizes all within one inch on the trunk.
View attachment 206411
The apex has 3 strong candles, as do the rest of the branches.
Top:View attachment 206412
The white spots are residue from a recent Mancozeb spraying
View attachment 206414

As of now I don't see inverse taper but I know that I have to take care of that soon or it'll be a problem. I'm just not sure which branches to remove, the thicker ones or the new ones that are just now coming in. Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[River's Edge]

The decisions you make will be based on the plan you have for the tree and wether or not any branches are actually creating a problem for that plan. Based on your photo's i would back off on the watering a bit. Allow the substrate to dry out pretty well before watering thoroughly and then repeat. The surface shows evidence of heavy watering with algae present, this extra moisture can also influence fungal issues for trees.
I remove branches in a whorl on the basis of need. if i wish to thicken the portion below the whorl i will leave them as long as possible without creating inverse taper. That being said i usually remove the thickest one first or the one opposite the thickest to prevent a knob forming. I prefer to remove them in stages in order to benefit from the extra foliage and growth. Additionally keeping one or two around helps to heal the scars from the ones removed. When removing the branch my routine is to stage the removal by leaving a stub and coming back a month or two later to create a clean concave cut for the final healing surface. The reasoning is that this allows the tree to adapt to losing the branch, which i believe creates a healthier situation for healing and less dieback at that site.
Lower branches are often used to change direction,improve taper, heal scars, thicken the base etc. Think twice before removing!
Start by determining the desired height for the tree, work on primary branches. The first branch should start at about 1/3 the desired final height.Your tree is young and the main goal now will be to develop trunk thickness and preventing problems from developing.

 

[Rodrigo]

Hello!These low branches are needed for the trunk to get taper.
You need to keep and grow them.
The same goes for the apex, too. You keep it and let it grow tall as sacrifice.
Have you come to a decision about which type of tree you are aiming to? A shohin perhaps? A literati maybe?
Your decision will determine your growing plan, I think...
As about the whorl I think that you could choose one of the branches to be your next trunk section (after "x" years and removal of the sacrifice apex) and wire it upwards and another one to be your main first branch.

However, like I said in the past I am still in the kindergarten school of Pines so take what I say with a pinch of salt....
I am sure @Riversedgebonsai Frank or @Brian Van Fleet Brian or Adair @Adair M will give you sound advice as soon as they read your thread...

I'd like to do a literati if possible- I've been really digging those recently. I haven't been too sure what to do with the branches because at least the two main ones are growing almost as strong as the apex. I'm going to wait it out until it's begins to cause inverse taper and then deal with them then while leaving the apex to grow.
Thank you for your reply!

The decisions you make will be based on the plan you have for the tree and wether or not any branches are actually creating a problem for that plan. Based on your photo's i would back off on the watering a bit. Allow the substrate to dry out pretty well before watering thoroughly and then repeat. The surface shows evidence of heavy watering with algae present, this extra moisture can also influence fungal issues for trees.
I remove branches in a whorl on the basis of need. if i wish to thicken the portion below the whorl i will leave them as long as possible without creating inverse taper. That being said i usually remove the thickest one first or the one opposite the thickest to prevent a knob forming. I prefer to remove them in stages in order to benefit from the extra foliage and growth. Additionally keeping one or two around helps to heal the scars from the ones removed. When removing the branch my routine is to stage the removal by leaving a stub and coming back a month or two later to create a clean concave cut for the final healing surface. The reasoning is that this allows the tree to adapt to losing the branch, which i believe creates a healthier situation for healing and less dieback at that site.
Lower branches are often used to change direction,improve taper, heal scars, thicken the base etc. Think twice before removing!
Start by determining the desired height for the tree, work on primary branches. The first branch should start at about 1/3 the desired final height.Your tree is young and the main goal now will be to develop trunk thickness and preventing problems from developing.

Thank you for the advice, Frank!
Thanks for the bit about the watering but that's how my sphagnum moss gets with all of my trees after it's been on there for a while. I do wait for it to dry out somewhat but it being in a pond basket and getting the afternoon sun that it does, I need to make sure to keep them well watered. It's in organic soil anyways so I'm not too worried about overwatering.
Regarding removing branches, that's some great advice and I'll be sure to do that when it does come time to remove them! I'm aiming for a literati style (hopefully on the shorter side) so I don't need branches so low, am I going to be using a branch as the next trunk extention or are now only as sacrifice to thicken the trunk? Considering that literati don't usually have low branches

 

[my nellie]

... ...It's in organic soil anyways so I'm not too worried about overwatering... ...

Obviously this is a typo error, isn't it?

 

[Rodrigo]

Obviously this is a typo error, isn't it?

Oh definitely--thank you for catching that! It's in 100% inorganic like the rest of my trees.