Rmj, how much tree to use?

[Djtommy]

Nice tree, nice trunkmovement.
At the last picture, jins are moving almost opposit direction which isnt good
I wouldnt remove them though, some carving on the big jin and a directionchange
Could change a lot. Take your time to think of a design and direction
Good luck!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The right Jin is too long for my taste, but covering it up, I can't quite find the height to which I'd shorten it.
I also wonder if the chosen front doesn't take away some of the trunk movement. How does it look rotated 45-60 degrees counter-clockwise?

 

[The Bonsai Herald]

Interesting virts Brian!

I kind of like it long. It's really dramatic. Definitely style it first and then shorten it if you see fit!

Andrew

 

[mcpesq817]

That's a really nice tree. I can see arguments for shortening the long jin on the right, but more and more you see trees with really long jins like that.

For me, I think there is a tension between the long jin on the right and the long jin on the left. One of these ultimately probably needs to be worked back. I might almost lean towards working the left one back because it is relatively horizontal (unless you end up changing the planting angle), and keeping the right one which would impart a unique character to the tree.

 

[wireme]

Now you find yourself like a lot of us, making decisions where you have to finish the idea. That's the trouble with bonsai; you come up with an idea and in several months you might see it come to pass. Don't lose hope or vision, regardless of the negativity you may encounter on the way.

Thanks, I'm sure i wont lose hope unless the tree dies or is no longer mine!

 

[wireme]

I like this as the front.
The jin on the right is very overpowering.
Rather than shorting it... I would suggest that you bring the top of the tree over to the right to incorporate the jin into the design of the tree. I think if your apex of the tree actually covered up a portion of the jin, it would also break up the length of it.

I'm currently thinking of crossing the jin with a lower branch or 2 and following the direction of the jin with the apex, closely but not covering it.

 

[wireme]

That's a really nice tree. I can see arguments for shortening the long jin on the right, but more and more you see trees with really long jins like that.

For me, I think there is a tension between the long jin on the right and the long jin on the left. One of these ultimately probably needs to be worked back. I might almost lean towards working the left one back because it is relatively horizontal (unless you end up changing the planting angle), and keeping the right one which would impart a unique character to the tree.

I am considering shortening the left jin mainly because it opens up another option for a front that shows lower trunk movement well.

 

[wireme]

The straihtness of the jins bother me more than anything else. Its like the old story is it has an easy life, till it died by the hands of a Bonsai ARTIST.

Where the new story has twists and turns, deception, intrigue, sex, drugs, rock and freaking roll.!

I'd ditch both jins, or do like Psycho Owen with the torch and bend em.

Main thing. Going through the first pics....I'm glad you kept it upright. That base deserves nothing else.

Sorce

Its funny, a good part of my decision to reduce to the first branch was to open the view of the big jin that is bothering everyone now! Its not so uncommon for the straighter, more vigourous section of a tree to die off leaving a slower growing section of tree to carry on but I hear what you're saying.

 

[wireme]

The right Jin is too long for my taste, but covering it up, I can't quite find the height to which I'd shorten it.
I also wonder if the chosen front doesn't take away some of the trunk movement. How does it look rotated 45-60 degrees counter-clockwise?

The current front has the widest base, rotated 45 either way its much thinner where it meets the soil, rotated 90 its nice as well, rotated about 15 counterclockwise might show better movement if the left jin is shortened. I'll try for more pics soon, busted my camera yesterday though.

Thanks all for the feedback!

 

[rockm]

"Its not so uncommon for the straighter, more vigourous section of a tree to die off leaving a slower growing section of tree to carry on"

That's all well and good, but in nature THAT is still distracting. Sometimes becoming preoccupied with a tree's "story" can blind you to some obvious visual issues.

It's fine to have the tree tell a story with its growth, but you have to keep in mind "natural" doesn't necessarily translate into "visually sound" or "better."

 

[Oliver Muscio]

It seems to me that the main interest aspect of this tree is the trunk, and that the long jin distracts and draws attention away from the trunk. I prefer one of the shorter-jin options.
Oliver

 

[mcpesq817]

It all comes down to artistic preference of course. Have you taken a look at Ryan Neil's website? He's got a few trees on there with "non-traditional" long jins. Take the tree below - you could shorten that long extending jin and have a nice more traditional looking tree. On the other hand, keeping the jin just makes the tree a little more unique and sets it apart from most junipers you see out there.

http://www.bonsaimirai.com/bonsai/rocky-mountain-juniper-no-4?width=1060&height=700

Here is another one:

http://www.bonsaimirai.com/bonsai/engelmann-spruce-no-2?width=1060&height=700


No right or wrong answer, just go with what you like. You could always take it to a professional and ask what they think. Either way you go, you have a really nice tree there.

 

[wireme]

"Its not so uncommon for the straighter, more vigourous section of a tree to die off leaving a slower growing section of tree to carry on"

That's all well and good, but in nature THAT is still distracting. Sometimes becoming preoccupied with a tree's "story" can blind you to some obvious visual issues.

It's fine to have the tree tell a story with its growth, but you have to keep in mind "natural" doesn't necessarily translate into "visually sound" or "better."

I'll take that as another vote to reduce the jin then?

 

[wireme]

It all comes down to artistic preference of course. Have you taken a look at Ryan Neil's website? He's got a few trees on there with "non-traditional" long jins. Take the tree below - you could shorten that long extending jin and have a nice more traditional looking tree. On the other hand, keeping the jin just makes the tree a little more unique and sets it apart from most junipers you see out there.

http://www.bonsaimirai.com/bonsai/rocky-mountain-juniper-no-4?width=1060&height=700

Here is another one:

http://www.bonsaimirai.com/bonsai/engelmann-spruce-no-2?width=1060&height=700


No right or wrong answer, just go with what you like. You could always take it to a professional and ask what they think. Either way you go, you have a really nice tree there.

Oh yeah, I've looked at the mirai site! many times! Actually there is no question in my mind about reducing the jin, it will stay for now, but I'm happy to hear other opinions. Now that I made the cut removing the upper tree it's far easier to see and visualize whats left and there are other questions besides the jin, like where to take the foliage thats left, up down or sideways, I have a few ideas as always and it's just a matter of deciding on one, I'll get there eventually.

 

[rockm]

Yeah. I think the biggest problem with the long jin isn't really the length, so much as its pretty uniform and unremarkable for the first two thirds and doesn't really add all that much visual texture or interest to the overall planting. In other words, it's kinda boring.

 

[fore]

Totally agree Rockm. I'd at least thin the jin with trunk splitter for at least some interest.

 

[wireme]

Totally agree Rockm. I'd at least thin the jin with trunk splitter for at least some interest.

I'll consider it for sure, thanks. In the meantime another decision made.. I debated for a while which bit of the branch to use for the future crown, tough choice for me but here it is. Now, hoping it hasn't been too much to fast I will let the tree rest until next year at least.
Trying to load other angle too but phone is ge5ting harder and harder to use now.

 

[wireme]

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[wireme]

I did tweak this one a bit more, just some gentle pulls with guy wire mainly to help envision future wiring. I am satisfied with choices made so far. Future plan, bring the left descending branch in a bit tighter with more movement and try to arrange foliage to not obscure deadwood too much. Compact crown curves a bit, bring it forward and continue to grow it. Carving and Shari at this years chop site.

 

[A Random User]

Seeing your thread again with fresh eyes and where and what you done with it since last... did up a quick virt just to show perhaps a path forward. This time for me, I actually think the long right jin should be shortened and the left one kept, with a slight angle adjustment in the planting.