Requesting assistance with these atlas cedars!

[Bowhuntmuledeer]

Greetings! Looking for some feedback on how to deal with these guys. I’m building a grow bed for a bunch of things, so they won’t be “field grown” but in a container surrounded by rocks and mulch. . Should I leave em in the containers they’re in or build a little box for em? How do people approach the grafts on these? Should I try to ground layer em, over the next couple years or just see how it goes. Will likely do a little wiring on the trunk to add some movement and light trimming before long, but mostly let em grow this year. I look forward to your replies, thanks!

 

[August44]

I've looked at a fair number of the blue Atlas cedars trying to find a nice one with low branching and a decent graft. Hard to find. That is the worst graft I have ever seen on one of these. I'm not sure they air layer or ground layer either. Going to be hard to make into a nice bonsai with a graft like that me thinks. I would be afraid to bend it down low also as the graft might split away.

YT I'm afraid.

 

[Cruiser]

I would focus on getting the trunks larger and more textured. That may help hide the grafts. Once the trees get some girth you can carve over the grafts to create deadwood.

A grow bed will be closer to “field grown” than the pots they’re in and likely lead to more growth and larger trunks sooner.

It appears that the buds are swollen/opening and ready/starting to extend, correct? If so, you are in the window to repot/mess with roots. Take this opportunity to arrange them radially and plant the tree.Perhaps put a plate underneath to limit downward root growth.

If you want your cedars to thicken as quickly as possible, do not cut anything off or wire. Accept that you won’t have trees that look like bonsai now, but will later. Derive satisfaction from the process, not the result, for now. Buy more trees to draw your attention and desire to create. Look for tough ones that are forgiving and respond quickly to work done. (Elms, boxwood, euonymus, dawn redwood). Climate permitting of course.

If you plan to become a regular in this community and want the best advice, be sure to add your location to your profile.

Blue Atlas Cedar Bonsai

Learn everything there is to know about Blue Atlas Cedar Bonsai, their origin, care information, where you can purchase one of your own, and more.

bonsaimirai.com

 

[Potawatomi13]

Much agreement to get trunks bigger ASAP. Do NOT bend area of/or stress area of grafts as major breakage danger exists but bending of trunks otherwise MUCH needed for future interest BEFORE replant for growing out. Perhaps with 3-4" trunks grafts will magically vanish? Big grow boxes, grow bags or in ground highly recommended.

 

[Shibui]

Trim off the remains of the understock stub so the graft union can heal smoother. Cedar are not known for overgrown grafts so I agree with the others to let it thicken and cross fingres the graft will disappear in the base of the tree.
Cedars do not seem to layer or strike well as cuttings so I'd persevere with the grafted trees and hope.

Also agree with growing them on but don't make the mistake of allowing the whole trunk to get real thick. Cedar do not bud on bare wood and don't look great after a huge chop. I try to develop a side branch as the replacement trunk. Do any wiring and pruning on that while the main trunk (sacrifice trunk) grows and thickens the base of the tree. Those low branches will give your final bonsai both taper and initial bends. More chop and grow on those will give further taper and bends but because cedar are so slow growing I supplement the chop and grow with wiring to add extra bends into the trunks.

I've grown most of my cedars in pots so I can maintain some degree of control over growth but that's just my initial preference. Grow beds will probably be OK provided you can keep an eye on growth.
Initially I would get them out of the pots to check root development. You'll probably need to do some hard root pruning and arrangement to start a good nebari as commercial growers do not do anything like that. Early (now) is by far the best time to do any root work. Much harder and more stressful when you have an older, larger tree.
Whether you use grow beds or boxes is up to you. Both will work but slightly different.
Some people sink pots into grow beds to try to maintain a compact root system. Probably not better, just a different approach.
I personally don't bother with tiles even though it is the in thing. Properly arranged roots give a very similar result but tiles are usually not detrimental.

 

[Bowhuntmuledeer]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply! I’ll get em out of those pots and into a box for the grow bed. I’ll just let em go wild for a time and see how the graft looks after a year or two!

 

[Bowhuntmuledeer]

Hello! Reviving this thread with a question for you all! I’m wondering if in an attempt to mitigate this terrible graft, I could twist a branch around and approach graft it under the original graft. Thereby, over time bulking up the short section of trunk under the bulbous under stock graft. Even if I don’t keep the branch in the long run it seems like it couldn’t hurt. Additionally, wondering when would be the best time to do this, and any other information that would help insure success in this operation. I’m assuming early summer next year would be ideal, but I have not done a lot of grafting, so I’ll be looking forward to whatever information I can get! Thanks!

 

[August44]

Can't see the graft.

 

[CaptColin]

I could be wrong, but I'd let 'er rip in that box she's in now. Wait until next season to make a decision. Just my ¢2