Thanks, PenumbraIt just looks like healthy succulent new growth. Unless those hanging shoots are part of your planned design, cut them off.
Yes, it could be.Have you been feeding it a bit too much? Looks like the new growths and needles extending too fast (too heavy) to stay up. Maybe too much water/fertilizer would be my suspect.
With the wet winter and spring, came the clouds and no direct sunshine.Is this year's growth different somehow? Are its growing conditions different this year? I can attest that JRP will grow long needles when not given enough sunlight, but I'm thinking that might not be the case here, particularly if your JBP seem happy.
Yeap, I guess a mix of too little sun and too much water. Let's see if the conditions improve around here.Looks like too much water to me.
For tree in development?! MAYBE techniques for refinement. Cutting needles? Surely you jest! Have you EVER seen Mirai Live? Starving developing tree is ignorant!Red pine needs (if you want to stunt it's growth a bit - which you should) very little water and very little food. Wait until the shoots are hardened off them cut them all off and thin the new buds to 2. Feeding them 2 times a year with solid organic or perhaps 6 times/year with liquid is probably enough. Repot rarely too. Every 4 years. Remove all old needles at the end of the season and cut any long needles for a few years. Place it in an exposed position.
Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.Red pine needs (if you want to stunt it's growth a bit - which you should) very little water and very little food. Wait until the shoots are hardened off them cut them all off and thin the new buds to 2. Feeding them 2 times a year with solid organic or perhaps 6 times/year with liquid is probably enough. Repot rarely too. Every 4 years. Remove all old needles at the end of the season and cut any long needles for a few years. Place it in an exposed position.
It has good drainage. It's a relatively narrow tall pot with a big hole on it, but yes, tilting the pot is a possibility.Tilt the pot for a while. Add a hole to the low side if possible.
Then you should be asking yourself what changed in your/its location recently. Since pines are infamously slow responding, the event could have been several weeks ago.The point here is, it changed behavior unexpectedly.
Thanks for pointing out so many possibilities, I am amazed!Then you should be asking yourself what changed in your/its location recently. Since pines are infamously slow responding, the event could have been several weeks ago.
Have your trees been in exactly the same places through the winter and up to now? In other words, is it correct to assume that your red pines have had the exact same treatments as your black pines?
In my experience, too much water when new shoots/needles are extending will cause the needles to turn yellow (permanently). My climate is quite cool, rarely getting much above 20C. Possibly this yellowing doesn't happen in warmer climes. On the other hand, I can't say whether this droopiness ever occurred on any of my trees - I can only say that it never caught my attention. Maybe this is a phenomenon that only occurs in warmer climes.
Mostly this yellowing occurs with my lodgepole pines but it does also happen with my young red/black Japanese pines that are in shallow pots (not in deeper pots). I use Turface MVP for everything. This year I put roughly half of them in much larger particle sized pumice and those in pumice didn't exhibit the yellowing. Are your red pines in the same substrate as your black pines and are the pots/substrate equally deep on all? Do you water all of them simultaneously?
I've also noted that overpotting makes matters worse in this regard. Did you repot the red pines this spring? Did you "up-pot" them?
Loss of turgidity (which what might be behind your tree's new growth hanging down) is usually a characteristic of something going on with the roots that limits water uptake = roots drowning, roots drying excessively, roots dying (fungal pathogens or bugs such as root aphids). Have you popped the root plug out of the pot to take a look?
Elongation is driven primarily by auxin, as is gravitropism. Your tree has elongated new growth but doesn't seem know which way is up or at least to act on the information as it would normally, by pointing the bud tip up. Gibberellin contributes to elongation; in fact it was discovered from a mold/fungus that causes rice plants to bolt. So maybe there is a similar mold/fungus stimulating overproduction of gibberellins in your tree causing it to produce long new shoots even though you've so strongly withheld nitrogen that it has an auxin deficiency (auxin is a nitrogenous compound). Has there been any 'recent' spraying of fruiting bushes/trees, say, near you? Is there myco in the substrate of your drooping red pines that doesn't seem to be in that of your blacks?
....
Thanks Frank, that's my line of thought also.The changing moisture conditions will affect JBP and JRP somewhat differently. JRP typically have more slender and softer needles to begin with. MY JRP respond more rapidly to over watering or too retentive soil mixes. I would monitor the watering for the JRP or provide more protection if the season is too wet.
The pictures do not show a serious problem in my view, simply a situation to respond to and monitor. Let the soil dry out a bit more between watering and tip pots or containers to ensure moisture is not sitting in the bottom. Long term use a bit more free draining less retentive mix if the problem continues over time.
I also believe the JBP to be more vigorous and thus uses more moisture in the growth pattern than JRP. Translation, I water the JRP less than the JBP in the same situation.
If it's in a bonsai pot it's time for refinement and restraining regardless of size. (Mine where in normal pots for 20 years before putting into a display pot) Otherwise it should be in a large terracotta pot and fed as you say but red pine should not be forced too much at any stage and it should be kept rather dry or you will probably end up having to graft on buds sometime down the road.For tree in development?! MAYBE techniques for refinement. Cutting needles? Surely you jest! Have you EVER seen Mirai Live? Starving developing tree is ignorant!
In other words you consider self too good to learn from experts because of knowing it all already. Having been keeping trees 52 years only recently have found true experts largely know better. Humility second only to basic horticulture skill in present hobby.If it's in a bonsai pot it's time for refinement and restraining regardless of size. (Mine where in normal pots for 20 years before putting into a display pot) Otherwise it should be in a large terracotta pot and fed as you say but red pine should not be forced too much at any stage and it should be kept rather dry or you will probably end up having to graft on buds sometime down the road.
I no longer need to watch things like Mirai Live as I have been growing trees for longer than them, besides which, Ryan's word salads bore me sideways