Reclaimed water

[Bonsai Nut]

The term ALKALINE in the context of this discussion means having a pH greater than 7.

The term ALKALINITY is the capacity of water to buffer changes in pH.

The two terms do NOT refer to the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably. My pool water can be alkaline, and have high or low alkalinity. To increase alkalinity, I will add sodium bicarbonate. To make the water less alkaline, I will add hydrochloric acid. If the water has high alkalinity, I have to add more acid to change the pH than if the water has low alkalinity.

Very confusing.

In the case of plants, you usually want to avoid water that is both ALKALINE and has high ALKALINITY. Water that is alkaline with low alkalinity doesn't have much ability to neutralize acidity in the soil. Water that is alkaline and has HIGH alkalinity has a greater ability to neutralize acid in the soil and increase soil pH. The more alkaline the water and the higher the water alkalinity, the greater this impact will be.

At pH above 7.0 (neutral) plants will have greater difficulty taking up specific trace elements. This impact can be much more noticeable when growing plants in containers and/or with some types of inorganic soils. One of the first signs (at least here on the west coast) is chlorosis caused by iron deficiency - even though the soil when tested has plenty of iron in it.



A good read:

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity

 

[willhopper]

I have no experience with it, but I would imagine that it is still has high alkalinity (being Florida) and the presence of extra fertilizer salts doesn’t help those species like loropelatum that prefer an acidic environment. So for other sensitive species, just think ‘acid lovers’, e.g., azaleas. You could also get a few samples a few months apart and have them analyzed to understand the alkalinity/salt content and it’s range.

Below is a plant list from UNF after they had similar problems:
http://southeastgarden.com/reclaimed-water.html

Thanks for this. Quite a few of my affected trees we’re on that list. I’ll watch them and keep using regular tap to see how they rebound.

 

[Dorstenia]

Lol, I’m a chemical engineer as well. We never learned about alkalinity in school. I think it’s a term used by only certain disciplines. There are specific test kits for it easily found in aquarium stores where the property is closely watched in reef tanks - another place it’s critical. And I believe it’s measured in ppm carbonate.

Saltwater aquariums are measured in dKH, that value can decrease due to consumption from corals and coralline algae as well as waste from fish and often needs buffering.

That said and that hobby in context, higher alkalinity is associated with higher pH, however ambient O2/CO2 levels can affect pH. For example in a sealed house filled with people pH can drop due to excess CO2, open a window and the pH will rise. Those drops can be smaller if the alkalinity is higher. pH is not a value I chase and alkalinity is what I focus on (I work in the industry, specifically in displays).

All of that said, there are areas with remarkable water quality where I live and areas with not so remarkable water quality. Hard water is a common topic of conversation. It is common for people to acidify their water if it is very hard, I use vinegar at one tablespoon per gallon other people I know with more trees use stronger solutions like muriatic acid and sulphuric acid in holding tanks. I like vinegar because I can chuck it in a watering can and not worry about overdosing too much since getting from 6 pH to 5.5 pH takes a lot more vinegar than it does to go from 7.5 pH to 6.5 pH (at least that what my meter tells me).

My pops is an analytical chemist and mentioned that when you acidify hard water the calcium and magnesium are freed up and and more bioavailable, he has a large veggie and fruit garden so I can't speak to how much that affects bonsai.

 

[Velodog2]

Impressive involvement in the aquarium industry. I’d kept reef tanks for years but am out of it for long enough now to have forgotten all these details. My last tank was a mostly acro 18 gallon I finally abandoned when it became overgrown and difficult to manage. It was all automated with failsafe backups. I used to track the regular daily pH cycle caused by the metabolic activity of the coral as a measure of health.

 

[TN_Jim]

The term ALKALINE in the context of this discussion means having a pH greater than 7.

The term ALKALINITY is the capacity of water to buffer changes in pH.

The two terms do NOT refer to the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably. My pool water can be alkaline, and have high or low alkalinity. To increase alkalinity, I will add sodium bicarbonate. To make the water less alkaline, I will add hydrochloric acid. If the water has high alkalinity, I have to add more acid to change the pH than if the water has low alkalinity.

Very confusing.

In the case of plants, you usually want to avoid water that is both ALKALINE and has high ALKALINITY. Water that is alkaline with low alkalinity doesn't have much ability to neutralize acidity in the soil. Water that is alkaline and has HIGH alkalinity has a greater ability to neutralize acid in the soil and increase soil pH. The more alkaline the water and the higher the water alkalinity, the greater this impact will be.

At pH above 7.0 (neutral) plants will have greater difficulty taking up specific trace elements. This impact can be much more noticeable when growing plants in containers and/or with some types of inorganic soils. One of the first signs (at least here on the west coast) is chlorosis caused by iron deficiency - even though the soil when tested has plenty of iron in it.

View attachment 200581

A good read:

Water Quality: pH and Alkalinity

I thought I was ramblin too far into the ether on that last, but this is a healthy breakdown that is complemented by others.

Terms are important. I believe it is possible that they are lost (perhaps for lack of definitive use) among disciplines, but I favor use the definitions correctly and synomously, defaulting to science if needed (Zzzzzzz)...

I have never taken alkalinity in this manner...and have generally associated it with an assigned # as a degree of the pH scale...not it’s constituant parts, fundamental makeup, or how these change per volume of water...

that’s what it’s really about here though right?...how the ppm of any ‘macro/micro nutrient or other directly associated chemical constitutes influences the health of bonsai....this would be so much simpler if watering and fertilizers applied to trees without a daily deluge of water.

These combined three factors have not been addressed here..,probably addressed:

the cec of what a tree is growing in, and the benefit/detriment of feeding schedule

how much water is being given to a tree -in tandem with ‘’nutrients’, and how much is really reaching the plant

pH -is a logarithmic scale, it’s x10 for every number....so 6 to 7 is multiplying the level of whatever x is, becoming a potential buffer

this is some extremely complex jazz for someone watering trees almost daily...no wonder it’s debated

if you had such municipal water, could you offset it with something like sulfur, the way farmers do?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

if you had such municipal water, could you offset it with something like sulfur, the way farmers do?

Or you could use an acid fertilizer like Miracid or Super Iron. There are many products out there that are designed to deal with alkaline soils.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Saltwater aquariums are measured in dKH, that value can decrease due to consumption from corals and coralline algae as well as waste from fish and often needs buffering.

Carbonate hardness buffers pH changes. dKH is simply the German measurement system (degrees Karbonate hardness) versus the English system of mg/L (or ppm). Saltwater has naturally high alkalinity, but in closed systems, as you pointed out, corals and coraline algae can take up enough calcium carbonate to start to lower the alkalinity of the water, opening the door for more dramatic daily pH swings and/or pH crashes. I think you meant to say dKH often needs "supplementing". I used to drip kalkwasser to maintain alkalinity. In my soil here in California, I have the exact opposite problem since we basically live on what was once a seabed. Basic soil, plenty of alkalinity.

 

[Dorstenia]

I think you meant to say dKH often needs "supplementing".

AFAIK, we've always referred to it as buffering using "buffering solutions" to alter hardness/alkalinty.

"A buffer is a solution to which an acid can be added without changing the concentration of available H+ ions (without changing the pH) appreciably."