Reactions to the First Artisans Cup

[DougB]

Look at them on one of these phones and screenshot them. If it is on the screen you can copy it. Any image.

Mr. Fray and others please check the copyright laws. They are copyrighted. Just being on the web does not give anyone the legal right to copy pictures or text.

just saying.

 

[M. Frary]

Mr. Fray and others please check the copyright laws. They are copyrighted. Just being on the web does not give anyone the legal right to copy pictures or text.

just saying.

Whoops! Now I owe Ryan money too!
The check is in the mail.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Most shows only have one judge.

I'm sorry, I don't know how the judging is done at the Nationals. That's the only other show I know of with multiple judges.

Last year's USNBE had 3 judges; Peter Warren, Hiroyoshi Yamaji, and David Easterbrook. Wisely, none are US citizens. They walked the displays individually with clip boards and score sheets, then met in a room, and hammered it out until they had a winner in each category. My understanding was that this took some time and some negotiation, but not an external tie-breaker. Their scoring wasn't transparent, and therefore (mercifully) not subjected to this level of scrutiny. I like Bill's style; but he's had years of experience and seems to know how to promote inclusion, and how to avoid drama.

 

[Txhorticulture]

Just casually reading through this thread. Do I understand correctly a judge, boon, was also a contestant? I agree with @rockm even the appearance of impropriety is bad enough to disqualify him. And he scored his tree highest? And low balled everyone else? Shocking? Lol. If I were hiM I wouldn't have judged, or at the very least abstain froM scoring your own tree.

Do you get anything for winning things like this or just bragging rights?

 

[sorce]

10k

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Man.
Ryan is a down ass feller.
This ain't gonna change what we do in our yards.
Except maybe allow for better material to be accessed easier.

It's at a hoity toity level.
Some of us don't get it.

Some of us don't care.

I wish Ryan the best.
We definitely need to bring money to this thing.

So there you go!

The popcorn is stale, there's puke in the line, somebody turn this carousel off !

Sorce

 

[reddog]

Man.
Ryan is a down ass feller.
This ain't gonna change what we do in our yards.
Sorce

What is a "down ass feller"?

 

[0soyoung]

Just casually reading through this thread. Do I understand correctly a judge, boon, was also a contestant?

No. Several students of Boon (lovingly known as 'SOBs') had trees in the show, but not Boon, himself.
The Pacific Bonsai Museum had several trees in the show. Judge David DeGroot was formerly the curator.
I don't know about associations with Judge Collin Lewis, but Judges Walter Pall, from Germany, and Peter Warren, from the U.K. were 'independent'.
It was Ryan Neil's show and it is obvious that top trees were owned by clients of his. Michael Haggedorn assisted Ryan and students of his had trees in the show (Konnor, whose JWP was a belated tie for 3rd, is a client - you can see a progression of this tree on the Cretaegus Bonsai blog).

 

[Adair M]

Just casually reading through this thread. Do I understand correctly a judge, boon, was also a contestant? I agree with @rockm even the appearance of impropriety is bad enough to disqualify him. And he scored his tree highest? And low balled everyone else? Shocking? Lol. If I were hiM I wouldn't have judged, or at the very least abstain froM scoring your own tree.

Do you get anything for winning things like this or just bragging rights?

Tex, what gave you this idea?

No, Boon wasn't a contestant. Neither were any of the other judges. There were trees in the show that Boon has worked on. Owned by others. Just like all the other judges.

 

[sorce]

What is a "down ass feller"?

Sorce

 

[Jason]

Last year's USNBE had 3 judges; Peter Warren, Hiroyoshi Yamaji, and David Easterbrook. Wisely, none are US citizens. They walked the displays individually with clip boards and score sheets, then met in a room, and hammered it out until they had a winner in each category. My understanding was that this took some time and some negotiation, but not an external tie-breaker. Their scoring wasn't transparent, and therefore (mercifully) not subjected to this level of scrutiny. I like Bill's style; but he's had years of experience and seems to know how to promote inclusion, and how to avoid drama.

Ya, so much for transparency.

 

[coh]

Last year's USNBE had 3 judges; Peter Warren, Hiroyoshi Yamaji, and David Easterbrook. Wisely, none are US citizens. They walked the displays individually with clip boards and score sheets, then met in a room, and hammered it out until they had a winner in each category. My understanding was that this took some time and some negotiation, but not an external tie-breaker. Their scoring wasn't transparent, and therefore (mercifully) not subjected to this level of scrutiny. I like Bill's style; but he's had years of experience and seems to know how to promote inclusion, and how to avoid drama.

Brian, you exhibited trees here (Rochester) in 2012 and 2014...did you get to see the judges scores for your trees? What about for other trees?

In the exhibition album for the 2nd and 3rd National Exhibitions, it was stated that "complete (judging) forms were available to the exhibitioners ..." This was omitted from the most recent album so I don't know if the policy changed.

Chris

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Brian, you exhibited trees here (Rochester) in 2012 and 2014...did you get to see the judges scores for your trees? What about for other trees?

In the exhibition album for the 2nd and 3rd National Exhibitions, it was stated that "complete (judging) forms were available to the exhibitioners ..." This was omitted from the most recent album so I don't know if the policy changed.

Chris

I did exhibit in the last 2 shows and attended last year's, but did not see scores for my trees or any others. Not sure I'd want to...I was just happy to be part of it. I think the judging form template is in the 3rd album.

 

[Txhorticulture]

No, Boon wasn't a contestant. Neither were any of the other judges. There were trees in the show that Boon has worked on. Owned by others. Just like all the other judges.

My mistake someone must have been referring to him judging a tree that used to be his. And I misunderstood that to mean 'his tree' means currently his. That didn't sound right at all. Lol

 

[Txhorticulture]

they are copyrighted. Just being on the web does not give anyone the legal right to copy pictures or text.

True, copyright is actually automatic i.e., they are copyright protected just because someone else took the photo. Did spectators take pics? Or was that forbidden.

10k

That's it? I hope its more in a few years when I win

 

[crust]

I'll be spending my $100.00 on gas to get to work.
I wouldn't spend $1.00 for any picture. But that's me. I have to prioritize.
And why should you have to buy pictures of your own tree? I would think these would be free to all who entered a tree at the show.
You had a tree entered. You paid the entry fees. You traveled. You shipped the tree? Your tree helped to make the show a success. Yet you Crust have to buy the pictures from the Artisans Cup like any Joe Shmoe?
Did Ryan kiss all of the entrants after he was done with them?

I am a little raw and I got no kiss. I am interested to hear the judges audio comments.

 

[MACH5]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Owen or Bjorn had any of their client's trees at the show?

 

[quietobserver]

Sorce

If you have to ask.......& there goes the neighborhood

 

[sorce]

Speaking of the neighborhood.

I thought maybe since we are talking about judging, I would share a picture of how we judge Bonsai in Chiraq!


Sorce

 

[barrosinc]

Speaking of the neighborhood.

I thought maybe since we are talking about judging, I would share a picture of how we judge Bonsai in Chiraq!
View attachment 83883

Sorce

Trunk too tail and straight, should have normalized the judging... but still, an F is a bit harsh.