Questions about initial development of a Southwestern white pine.

[NMbonsai]

Last fall, I purchased a Southwestern white pine (Pinus strobiformus 'Loma Linda') in a three gallon nursery pot from an out of state nursery. The tree arrived in great condition and was covered in buds. I uppotted it into a five gallon pot with minimal disturbance to the root ball; just raking out and trimming some circling roots and raking out the sides to somewhat open up the outside of the root ball. The tree was originally grown in a rich organic soil containing a large quantity of wood chips and a fair amount of micorrhizae. A note that came with the tree recommended that it be planted in a mix with a large proportion of wood chips, which I did. It didn't say why, but I assume it was to encourage the growth of the micorrhizae. I put the tree in a larger pot to hopefully increase the trunk diameter and to help it adjust to the change of climate from it's original location. I plan on leaving it to grow out for a while before starting to develop it as a bonsai. As seen in the pictures, the tree has responded well to the uppotting and the application of time release granular fertilizer (17-6-12) in spring of this year. The apex is covered with new growth and tiny developing cones.
My questions are: 1) Although this apical growth is necessary for the desired trunk thickening, won't it also contribute to an energy imbalance that could lead to the loss of the lower branches needed for the later development as a bonsai?
2) Should I thin out the large quantity of branches at the apex and remove the cones that serve no useful purpose and are depleting some of the tree's vigor?
3) Should I do some needle plucking as well, which I understand (from a Bonsai Mirai podcast) can be done anytime during the growing season to balance growth and energy?
I respectfully wecome all comments and advice on this topic, especially from those members who have been successfully growing pines for years, which is much longer than I have.

 

[Ozz80]

I am not an expert on pines, but as far as I know, pines tend to grow developing multiple branches at a node called whorles and that can create reverse taper there. So you need to retain one single branch connected to the trunk or a primary branch at each node and remove the others when the pruning season comes. The second thing I can suggest is to decide what style of bonsai you want to develop and start wiring your trunk and primary branches before they get too stiff.

Your questions are related to developing sacrifice branches to increase taper and trunk thickness without losing compactness of the tree, which is actually something I am also learning, so I leave that to experts to answer. I suggest you however to not limit yourself with the answers to your post, because there is plenty of good information about how to create pine bonsais. One is for example @Ryceman3 's jbp contest development post.

Thread 'Ryceman3's 6yr JBP Contest Entry'

Jun 25, 2018

And so it begins ... well, for me anyway. Being from the Southern Hemisphere I am patiently waiting for July 1, and have spent the past month or more looking for JBP seeds to work with. They are not so plentiful in this part of the world, and our quarantine laws make importing seed from overseas a no-go zone, so it took a bit of extra effort but I have come up with some.

I managed to get a few from 3 sources.

A local eBay site had the cultivar JBP "Thunderhead", which I think may not be as good for shohin as the growth (from all reports) is a bit coarse - but since this was all I could...

• Ryceman3
• Replies: 175
• Forum: The 2018 Six Year Japanese Black Pine Contest

• 

 

[NMbonsai]

I am not an expert on pines, but as far as I know, pines tend to grow developing multiple branches at a node called whorles and that can create reverse taper there. So you need to retain one single branch connected to the trunk or a primary branch at each node and remove the others when the pruning season comes. The second thing I can suggest is to decide what style of bonsai you want to develop and start wiring your trunk and primary branches before they get too stiff.

Your questions are related to developing sacrifice branches to increase taper and trunk thickness without losing compactness of the tree, which is actually something I am also learning, so I leave that to experts to answer. I suggest you however to not limit yourself with the answers to your post, because there is plenty of good information about how to create pine bonsais. One is for example @Ryceman3 's jbp contest development post.

Thread 'Ryceman3's 6yr JBP Contest Entry'

Jun 25, 2018

And so it begins ... well, for me anyway. Being from the Southern Hemisphere I am patiently waiting for July 1, and have spent the past month or more looking for JBP seeds to work with. They are not so plentiful in this part of the world, and our quarantine laws make importing seed from overseas a no-go zone, so it took a bit of extra effort but I have come up with some.

I managed to get a few from 3 sources.

A local eBay site had the cultivar JBP "Thunderhead", which I think may not be as good for shohin as the growth (from all reports) is a bit coarse - but since this was all I could...

• Ryceman3
• Replies: 175
• Forum: The 2018 Six Year Japanese Black Pine Contest

• 

Thank you @Oz80. I will check out that thread. Even though it's about growing pines from seed, I'm sure there will be good information on pruning and wiring as well. Your advice on wiring the trunk and branches is spot on, and especially about removing the extra branches at the nodes. I was planning on doing that in early spring when sap loss would be at a minimum, but I have heard that major branch reduction can also be done in late summer at the end of the growing season when the tree is in peak energy condition. Also, that may have only been referring to black pines and not white pines, I don't remember. I guess what I am confused about is whether I can leave the top on to develop the trunk without causing the tree to drop any lower branches, or would removing all but one branch at each node prevent that from happening? I am hoping the big guns will weigh in soon!

 

[Orion_metalhead]

I think you should focus on the long term style at this point. If you know what your next leader branch will be, You can slowly reduce to it while letting it gain strength.



Red 1: Next leader
Red 2: future apical leader/ trunk continuation

Blue: Reductions in order I would remove. Maybe 2yrs between removals.

Because you recently repotted, Id wait til next year to do any of this work. You could probably complete reduction healthily in about 5 years, with a structurally sound specimen with secondary branching in place by this time. You could chose different branches to cut back to, but I selected the most obvious and traditional to my eyes.

 

[Ozz80]

Thank you @Oz80. I will check out that thread. Even though it's about growing pines from seed, I'm sure there will be good information on pruning and wiring as well. Your advice on wiring the trunk and branches is spot on, and especially about removing the extra branches at the nodes. I was planning on doing that in early spring when sap loss would be at a minimum, but I have heard that major branch reduction can also be done in late summer at the end of the growing season when the tree is in peak energy condition. Also, that may have only been referring to black pines and not white pines, I don't remember. I guess what I am confused about is whether I can leave the top on to develop the trunk without causing the tree to drop any lower branches, or would removing all but one branch at each node prevent that from happening? I am hoping the big guns will weigh in soon!

As far as I know, early spring is a good time for repotting but not for wiring and pruning for conifers. As for the mountain pines, fall is a better time.

I understand that you repotted with minimal disturbance to the roots this season. So I am not sure that styling at this fall is strictly dangerous, especially for a young material that responded well after a potting without major root pruning or bare rooting. A more experienced user can make a better assessment, though.

I suggested @Ryceman3 's progress post since it includes good examples of creating sacrifice branches at the apex and at sides, cleaning the needles below at those sacrifices so that it does not shadow the main tree and finally removing the sacrifices at the right time, rather than for wiring.

 

[NMbonsai]

I think you should focus on the long term style at this point. If you know what your next leader branch will be, You can slowly reduce to it while letting it gain strength.

View attachment 602403

Red 1: Next leader
Red 2: future apical leader/ trunk continuation

Blue: Reductions in order I would remove. Maybe 2yrs between removals.

Because you recently repotted, Id wait til next year to do any of this work. You could probably complete reduction healthily in about 5 years, with a structurally sound specimen with secondary branching in place by this time. You could chose different branches to cut back to, but I selected the most obvious and traditional to my eyes.

Thank you, Orion. The removal in stages makes sense, and didn't occur to me. That way, the apex can remain longer to grow out the trunk and the tree will be less stressed by a large trunk chop at one time.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Thank you, Orion. The removal in stages makes sense, and didn't occur to me. That way, the apex can remain longer to grow out the trunk and the tree will be less stressed by a large trunk chop at one time.

Develop the next leader and the final tree structure as you reduce. Remove bar branches now so you dont get whorls or inverse taper low on the trunk.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It didn't say why, but I assume it was to encourage the growth of the micorrhizae.

It probably has more to do with avoiding soil compaction and root rot... combined with the fact that you are probably watering with alkaline water (all water that I know of in NM is alkaline) while pines prefer slightly acidic soil conditions.

Strobiformis is a strong species. It is used extensively here on the East Coast as root stock for eastern white pine and Japanese white pine cultivars. I just purchased a Japanese white pine yesterday that was grafted on P. strobiformis root stock. It is a mountain pine and grows natively in areas with low organic soil content and intermittent rainfall, so be careful not to overwater or let the roots sit in water.

 

[NMbonsai]

It probably has more to do with avoiding soil compaction and root rot... combined with the fact that you are probably watering with alkaline water (all water that I know of in NM is alkaline) while pines prefer slightly acidic soil conditions.

Strobiformis is a strong species. It is used extensively here on the East Coast as root stock for eastern white pine and Japanese white pine cultivars. I just purchased a Japanese white pine yesterday that was grafted on P. strobiformis root stock. It is a mountain pine and grows natively in areas with low organic soil content and intermittent rainfall, so be careful not to overwater or let the roots sit in water.

Thank you so much for that information @Bonsai Nut. You are absolutely correct about the alkalinity of the NM water. Here in Albuquerque, the average PH of the city water is around 7.6. Luckily, most years I am able to collect enough rainwater in the winter and spring to get through most of the summer until our monsoon season gets here in late summer/early fall. Lately it has been very late to almost nonexistent. We are definitely in extreme drought conditions throughout most of the state. I save the rainwater (liquid gold!) for use only on the bonsai. The vegetables, shrubs and landscape trees get the city water and grey water from the kitchen sink. I had heard that P. strobiformus is used as a rootstock for Japanese white pines. Coming from the mountains of northern Mexico, Southern New Mexico and Arizona, I consider it an almost native to central New Mexico. I have been growing them for several years now and they have been quite responsive to development as bonsai. The two most popular pines used here (except for JBP) appear to be the Ponderosa and Limber pines, which are true natives of our central and northern mountains. They are widely collected as yamadori and have a good survival rate when using the proper procedures. Surprisingly, most of the local bonsai enthusiasts I have met have had almost no luck working with the Pinon pine; which we have growing all over the foothills here and up to about 7000', where the Ponderosas take over. Most folks say that the Pinons last about 5 to 6 years as bonsai before declining and dying. This makes the collecting of mature specimens that @Hartinez is successful at all the more surprising and impressive.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Here in Albuquerque, the average PH of the city water is around 7.6.

You're lucky. In Orange County, CA, it was 8.5 - according to the water district's own water quality report

 

[NMbonsai]

Wow! That is pretty high to be drinking it or using it to water trees. And probably results in a lot of scale on the pots. Is that one of the reasons you moved to NC?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Waiting till 2026 to cut back then cut back trunk to 2nd right branch from bottom. Keep bottom left and 2nd right branch to develop better tree with some trunk movement presently absent from tree. Yes is drastic but future taper and movement begins here. These two branches have plenty of needles to keep tree alive and healthy.