Questions about Ground Planting

[Gabler]

Once early spring arrives wait until the buds begin to push. Then chop and seal. Keep in morning sun and part shade afterwards.

The advice I usually hear for chops is to wait until the foliage hardens off, so that's what I usually do, except for trees chopped at collection. Where OP and I live, near the upper part of the Chesapeake Bay we tend to see the first flush of foliage hardened off in June for most species, so that's when I do most of my chopping. That said, the advice is usually given with respect to maples, where bleeding is a concern. I am interested to see that you suggest an azalea chop earlier in the spring. Is there an advantage to earlier chops, or are you just thinking that OP will want to chop as soon as possible to get things developing as soon as possible?

 

[dbonsaiw]

The advice I usually hear for chops is to wait until the foliage hardens off, so that's what I usually do, except for trees chopped at collection.

One of the many concepts that I am still confused about. I heard one gets better healing (and smaller internodes) when chopped in summer. That said, I do appreciate the rigorous growth that comes from an early spring chop. And then I can angle the cut later in the season. As far as maple bleeding is concerned, it doesn't look great, but I haven't had any issues because of it. Worst I've had is I can't get any cut paste on the wound because it slides off. Curious on what others have to say on the topic. I'm getting ready to do a rather large trunk chop of a dawn redwood next season and was planning on chopping in the spring.

 

[ECMist]

Personally tend to be cautious about these things.

I’ve had great success taking robust landscape raised azaleas, chopping them and putting these back into the ground.

In pots there is slightly less success. I think this is partly due to the fact folks constantly prune potted azaleas. Or the azaleas have gotten old and weak before the plant is chopped.

Just ensure the azaleas you have is fertilized well and watered properly before winter. Then most importantly properly wintered over (see link below).

Once early spring arrives wait until the buds begin to push. Then chop and seal. Keep in morning sun and part shade afterwards.

Since it’s a landscape azalea, and not a heritage piece, wouldn’t worry all that much. Plenty more where they come from.

Overwintering bonsai – Theory, Planning and Case Studies Azalea Focus

Oct 16, 2022

Overwintering Bonsai

• Deep Sea Diver
• overwintering bonsai wintering over azalea bonsai wintering over examples wintering over methods wintering over planning wintering over theory
• Tutorials

Cheers
DSD sends

Following these steps, I assume it would be better to plant it in the ground without the soil it had whilst in the pot now, so that it is more cold hardy and so that once it is cut more energy can be sent into new growth, instead of roots once spring turns up?

 

[Gabler]

Following these steps, I assume it would be better to plant it in the ground without the soil it had whilst in the pot now, so that it is more cold hardy and so that once it is cut more energy can be sent into new growth, instead of roots once spring turns up?

No. Don't mess with the roots in the fall. Just winterize and wait till spring.

 

[ECMist]

Would I give it time after planting it to establish before I cut it? Like waiting until growth hardens off as mentioned

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

The advice I usually hear for chops is to wait until the foliage hardens off, so that's what I usually do, except for trees chopped at collection. Where OP and I live, near the upper part of the Chesapeake Bay we tend to see the first flush of foliage hardened off in June for most species, so that's when I do most of my chopping. That said, the advice is usually given with respect to maples, where bleeding is a concern. I am interested to see that you suggest an azalea chop earlier in the spring. Is there an advantage to earlier chops, or are you just thinking that OP will want to chop as soon as possible to get things developing as soon as possible?

Quite right.

For healthy and robust azaleas one can chop just about anytime with decent to indifferent results…. As azaleas usually have either their spring or late summer foliage on.

But to get the very best results - early spring is the way to go. This takes advantage of the full growing year, pushing the robust energy accumulated the past year in the roots and trunk into the remaining visible buds and epicormic buds.

Often wondered about the maple cut back advice in this respect. Why would one waste all the stored energy? I can see the level of the response post cut might be a reason with extremely long internodes. So a layer chip moderates this?

In any event as a robust and healthy azalea properly managed will push buds anywhere one can cut back with an expectation of good results,

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Would I give it time after planting it to establish before I cut it? Like waiting until growth hardens off as mentioned

Assuming we are still talking about azalea…. as long as the azalea is properly sited and planted ….and makes it through winter safely, (dogs, rabbits etc). an early spring chop should be fine…

That said…I’m not sure there is any benefit gained for ground planting. The plant looks good. Azaleas (quince etc) are one of the few bonsai, that if not slammed into a uber shallow pot, do extremely well in pots…. Especially tokamame training pots.

So I’d keep it as is for now, protect it well and chop next year.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[ECMist]

That makes my life a lot easier. Thanks for the very detailed information, I’ll make sure to thoroughly study overwintering to make sure I get them through the winter without problems. Thanks so much!

 

[Glaucus]

Regarding azaleas, in my experience you get the most growth by putting azaleas into ideal potting mix inside a pot of the correct size, considering the root ball. Which would be about 1 to 3 cm in diameter additional soil around the root ball you already have. And the potting mix being peat & perlite roughly 50/50, with some of the peat being true peat at 4.5 pH and some peat being ericaceous potting mix with short term fertilizer. And to that, you add about 5 to 10% pine bark. I use French pine aka Pinus maritima. But other species should be fine as well. And then you add slow acting osmocote. I use the 18 month Lo Start formulation.

You can grow them in the full ground as well. To grow a good trunk, you probably need 10 years. Not just 1 winter. And planting them in the full ground is a low maintenance way. You may still need to manually water, but way less than in the potting solution. And rather than repotting every 2 years or so, all you have to do with ground growing is dig up some plants if they start to crowd into each other/grow into each other. And you need to manage weeds.

As azaleas are shrubs, not trees, they do not put out long or deep roots. Just fine surface roots. Which means they do not need grow bags. And do not need to grow a new root system for a pot, once you decide to dig it up. But that also means it doesn't get to grow out long deep roots in the full ground that it couldn't do when in a pot. The roots of an azalea would be in the top layer of the soil. Which mean that theoretically you could amend the soil of the growing bed to be quite close to ideal in terms of pH, organic matter content, and drainage.

If you put small plants now spaced apart accounting fo the size they would have in 10 years, then there is a lot of bare ground and unshaded space in between them for weeds to grow. But if you place them closer, near ideal for the size of the plants right now, they get crowded in 2 or 3 years, and you need to go in and dig up every second or third plant. And find a new spot for them.

 

[ECMist]

Personally tend to be cautious about these things.

I’ve had great success taking robust landscape raised azaleas, chopping them and putting these back into the ground.

In pots there is slightly less success. I think this is partly due to the fact folks constantly prune potted azaleas. Or the azaleas have gotten old and weak before the plant is chopped.

Just ensure the azaleas you have is fertilized well and watered properly before winter. Then most importantly properly wintered over (see link below).

Once early spring arrives wait until the buds begin to push. Then chop and seal. Keep in morning sun and part shade afterwards.

Since it’s a landscape azalea, and not a heritage piece, wouldn’t worry all that much. Plenty more where they come from.

Overwintering bonsai – Theory, Planning and Case Studies Azalea Focus

Oct 16, 2022

Overwintering Bonsai

• Deep Sea Diver
• overwintering bonsai wintering over azalea bonsai wintering over examples wintering over methods wintering over planning wintering over theory
• Tutorials

Cheers
DSD sends

A little off topic from this thread, but still about azaleas: I’ve read both of your resources on azaleas and they’re both very helpful. I’ve recently purchased a hino maru and dug up a couple of other azalea cultivars, Sedai, Bai Ho, and Sachi no Hana. Since the gentlemen I bought the Hino Maru from is just 40 minutes away, he said he usually overwinters once temperatures dip below 35 in his unheated garage with grow lights until temperatures increase again in early spring. Would you advise that I do the same thing, in addition to mulching and allowing the trees to get at least 6 weeks below 40 degrees? Also, how would I know if the tree is dropping leaves if it’s because of dormancy, or if it’s unhappy? I’m asking this because the Hino Maru is beginning to drop leaves (probably because the gentlemen who I bought it from repotted it) and it came across my mind. I also see people say that azaleas drop all their leaves or half of them, but some others say that satsuki don’t drop any. Which is the right answer?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I’ve read both of your resources on azaleas and they’re both very helpful. I’ve recently purchased a hino maru and dug up a couple of other azalea cultivars, Sedai, Bai Ho, and Sachi no Hana. Since the gentlemen I bought the Hino Maru from is just 40 minutes away, he said he usually overwinters once temperatures dip below 35 in his unheated garage with grow lights until temperatures increase again in early spring. Would you advise that I do the same thing, in addition to mulching and allowing the trees to get at least 6 weeks below 40 degrees? Also, how would I know if the tree is dropping leaves if it’s because of dormancy, or if it’s unhappy? I’m asking this because the Hino Maru is beginning to drop leaves (probably because the gentlemen who I bought it from repotted it) and it came across my mind. I also see people say that azaleas drop all their leaves or half of them, but some others say that satsuki don’t drop any. Which is the right answer?

Not quite sure about your “garage set up”

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sorry about that. Phone died while composing.

Basically would add a heat mat/thermostat set at 40F to the garage set up.

Evergreen azaleas have two sets of leaves, spring and summer/fall. The spring leaves will fall off when cold hits. Our Hino Mari’s haven’t yet, but others have. E usually strip this inner leaves off as they can cause fungus during winter storage. Leave about 5 - 6 leaves around the buds.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[ECMist]

What would be a cause for alarm for leaves? I’m seeing a couple yellow leaves and some bright green leaves on the Hino Maru, and the Sedai has only gotten two yellow leaves so far, and the temperatures are around the 40’s all week.

 

[Glaucus]

The leaves just around the flower bud stay, the other ones they drop in autumn. It is in the overwintering resource. I believe my picture is even in there, showing the colour difference. Once they turn fully yellow, when you touch them they drop. 40F is very warm. I would leave it outside. Maybe move it inside for just the coldest handful of nights. If it thaws during the day, it should definitely stay outdoors. Hi no Maru should be hardy as a landscape plant in zone 7. As a potted plant, it is less protected. These details are all in the guide.

 

[ECMist]

So the only cause for alarm would be the colorations of leaves described in the guide, specifically around the buds? (Or in the case that the trunk splits) If the garage set up doesn’t make sense for the most part, at what temperature should I move them into the garage, 25 (in addition to what temperature to prevent pot cracking)?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

So the only cause for alarm would be the colorations of leaves described in the guide, specifically around the buds? (Or in the case that the trunk splits) If the garage set up doesn’t make sense for the most part, at what temperature should I move them into the garage, 25 (in addition to what temperature to prevent pot cracking)?

It’s great you read the appendices about cold damage!

However unless the azaleas have sustained cold related injuries, not to worry at this time…. And I’d really worry if the trunk split.

Now if one was to put these trees out in below freezing weather for awhile..…. That would be an entirely different story.

Here’s what I recommend.

We usually keep our azaleas outside until the first freeze hits. Then before the freeze hits the azaleas are either moved into a greenhouse or a cold frame… depending upon the cultivar…. In the case of the azaleas named, they would go in the greenhouse…. Or in your case the garage under lights etc.

All trees stay in winter storage until all danger of frost is past. However during the day when the weather is above 45F, we open the door/cover.

…. Just looked up your climatology. The winter weather in your neck of the woods is similar to ours. So inside sometime in November unless early freeze and generally outside about the beginning of March.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[ECMist]

It’s great you read the appendices about cold damage!

However unless the azaleas have sustained cold related injuries, not to worry at this time…. And I’d really worry if the trunk split.

Now if one was to put these trees out in below freezing weather for awhile..…. That would be an entirely different story.

Here’s what I recommend.

We usually keep our azaleas outside until the first freeze hits. Then before the freeze hits the azaleas are either moved into a greenhouse or a cold frame… depending upon the cultivar…. In the case of the azaleas named, they would go in the greenhouse…. Or in your case the garage under lights etc.

All trees stay in winter storage until all danger of frost is past. However during the day when the weather is above 45F, we open the door/cover.

…. Just looked up your climatology. The winter weather in your neck of the woods is similar to ours. So inside sometime in November unless early freeze and generally outside about the beginning of March.

Cheers
DSD sends

Thanks so much for you help, that makes a lot more sense. Would it be beneficial to open a window if it’s above 45?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

That would help. We do this to keep the temperature down and increase airflow.

The former to keep the plant from breaking dormancy. The latter to avoid fungus.

Garages generally can be pretty drafty… yet if yours is not it might be wise to get a low cost small fan to increase the airflow over the azaleas. For now simply pay more attention to the airflow in the garage to see off a fan might be needed.

After the first successful winter over you’ll feel much better!

Cheers
DSD sends