Query regarding technique to thicken a branch from Peter Tea

[Deleted member 21616]

All I know is twigs, branches and trunks thicken faster in the late summer and fall. Watch your wire, if you are trying to avoid wire scars. Cutting in can happen quickly in the early fall.

Cool, thanks for clarifying

 

[0soyoung]

All I know is twigs, branches and trunks thicken faster in the late summer and fall. Watch your wire, if you are trying to avoid wire scars. Cutting in can happen quickly in the early fall.

No. You are confusing a rate of change with an accumulated amount.

It is true that branches thicken more after the summer solstice than before. However, they are thickening fastest within days of the summer solstice. I illustrated this general pattern of perennial plant growth with actual backyard measurements of Douglas firs, lodgepole pines, cork oaks, zelkovas, and eastern redbuds.

Leaves, the foliage, senses the length of daylight and transmit a message to the rest of the plant that days are now getting shorter and the growth pattern changes. This messenger isn't auxin.

 

[0soyoung]

don't all of the solar panels on tree contribute to the manufacturing of sugars and carbs to be stored?

Yes, indeed they do.

Of course, with the caveat of sun exposure, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

[Smoke]

There are about several dozen experts here if only they would do the work and find out how any particular tree responds to your climate, your soil, and your watering. To continue to read about this stuff and not do it for yourself just keeps you beholding to the experts. You never find out for yourself. Didn’t Martin Luther King Jr. die for this? Do him proud, be a leader not a follower. Blaze a trail and let your work speak for itself!!!

 

[Deleted member 21616]

Yes, indeed they do.

Of course, with the caveat of sun exposure, yadda, yadda, yadda.

great! Thank you for the confirmation!

 

[Deleted member 21616]

To continue to read about this stuff and not do it for yourself

I'd hesitate to assume that many people on this discussion-oriented forum aren't also doing.

Surely you'd agree that both reading and doing is a fair-minded approach?

 

[Adair M]

No. You are confusing a rate of change with an accumulated amount.

It is true that branches thicken more after the summer solstice than before. However, they are thickening fastest within days of the summer solstice. I illustrated this general pattern of perennial plant growth with actual backyard measurements of Douglas firs, lodgepole pines, cork oaks, zelkovas, and eastern redbuds.

Leaves, the foliage, senses the length of daylight and transmit a message to the rest of the plant that days are now getting shorter and the growth pattern changes. This messenger isn't auxin.

You may be right about the summer solstice. But for my JBP, it doesn’t really matter. I decandle them around July 4, somewhat after the solstice.

 

[0soyoung]

You may be right about the summer solstice. But for my JBP, it doesn’t really matter. I decandle them around July 4, somewhat after the solstice.

I must decandle now (circa Memorial Day) in my climate. Else all I get are buds for next year. But what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

btw, did you notice Jonas's post this morning?

 

[Adair M]

I must decandle now (circa Memorial Day) in my climate. Else all I get are buds for next year. But what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

btw, did you notice Jonas's post this morning?

Thanks for the link, Oso! No, I had not seen that.

And, I will tell you, that in my opinion, he should remove all the branches in that whorl that’s above his keeper portion. That’s the “middle” section of the sacrifice.

I’m going to call him now... what time is it in California???

 

[Adair M]

Thanks for the link, Oso! No, I had not seen that.

And, I will tell you, that in my opinion, he should remove all the branches in that whorl that’s above his keeper portion. That’s the “middle” section of the sacrifice.

I’m going to call him now... what time is it in California???

Lol!!!

I had Boon look at it, and he agrees with me. Too many branches remain on the sacrifice.

 

[LanceMac10]

I must decandle now (circa Memorial Day) in my climate. Else all I get are buds for next year./QUOTE]
Not the thread for this but.....what?

 

[Smoke]

From what i understood from the Mirai videos, at least for Maples

Just trying to get some clarification here, i'm only about 6 months into my bonsai career

I got it now. Carry on.....

 

[leatherback]

killer thread. Thanks for the link @sorce. Can't believe I have not seen this before.

 

[Maloghurst]

Yes, it does. Why or why not? It’s not necessary to repeat all the reasons, they are posted already in this thread. See my previous posts, those by Riversedgebonsai, Wm Valavanis, and fvilob963 (or whatever his name is). Also, Peter Tea’s blog has the information that prompted this thread.

While we are on this subject, a sacrifice to fatten a trunk doesn’t really work unless that sacrifice is the tallest (highest) point of the tree. I’ve seen many people wanting to thicken the lower trunk. To either induce taper or fix a reverse taper issue. So, they try growing out a branch and let it run. If it runs horizontal, and never gets to be the tallest, it never really fattens the trunk lower down. If, however, that same branch was staked up and it becomes the tallest point, the tree will figure out that this branch should be the leader. And it will start putting out more wood on the branch and the portion of the lower trunk that is influenced by the hormones produced in that branch (new leader).

Hello Adair, so does this mean I should be cutting back my central leader on the JWP that I am developing in the other thread. So that my very low sacrifice branches are the highest?

 

[Adair M]

Hello Adair, so does this mean I should be cutting back my central leader on the JWP that I am developing in the other thread. So that my very low sacrifice branches are the highest?

I’m not sure I would consider those as sacrifice branches. Isn’t there already a basal flair? What good would using those as sacrifice branches do?

I think they might be used as secondary trunks on a clump design, perhaps.

 

[Maloghurst]

I was going to just cut back lightly and needle pull to redirect growth to the bottom. But should try to make these branches the highest point?

 

[Maloghurst]

I’m not sure I would consider those as sacrifice branches. Isn’t there already a basal flair? What good would using those as sacrifice branches do?

I think they might be used as secondary trunks on a clump design, perhaps.

I am trying to do something like this. Am I nuts?

 

[0soyoung]

I am trying to do something like this. Am I nuts?

Yes

Other than basic care, this will only need your attention twice a year.
But if you have lots of other things to do, it won't matter.

 

[Adair M]

I am trying to do something like this. Am I nuts?
View attachment 206078View attachment 206079

Yes, you’re nuts. Lol!!!

That was an experimental technique they tried for a wile with JBP to create pyramid shaped trunks, short and fat. Eventually, they’d remove all those branches, then graft back on new ones on the trunk to make the bonsai. It was popular in the 1980’s, they had started the trees in the 1960’s and 1970’s.

What they found is the trunks were ugly because of all the scarring.

And simply letting a single terminal leader run, then cutting back (repeatedly) was faster, had fewer scars and thus made better bark, and you could keep some small low branches so you didn’t have to graft every future branch!

You don’t see these anymore, much. And there’s a reason. It’s not a very good technique!

 

[Maloghurst]

Yes

Other than basic care, this will only need your attention twice a year.
But if you have lots of other things to do, it won't matter.

Yes, you’re nuts. Lol!!!

That was an experimental technique they tried for a wile with JBP to create pyramid shaped trunks, short and fat. Eventually, they’d remove all those branches, then graft back on new ones on the trunk to make the bonsai. It was popular in the 1980’s, they had started the trees in the 1960’s and 1970’s.

What they found is the trunks were ugly because of all the scarring.

And simply letting a single terminal leader run, then cutting back (repeatedly) was faster, had fewer scars and thus made better bark, and you could keep some small low branches so you didn’t have to graft every future branch!

You don’t see these anymore, much. And there’s a reason. It’s not a very good technique!

Ahhhh! I thought I had something special because I rarely see all this very low branching!
I guess I will consider triple or twin trunk with this one then!
Thank! Mike