Progressing American Bonsai

[John Ruger]

I have noticed a problem with internet bonsai forums:
our ability to type greatly out-paces our trees abilities to grow.

the older folks have years of experience and pics to build their case and for newer folks there aint much to show...

If you look at the newest ten threads on the forum, the ones about trees rarely get to their second page of replies while threads like this..... well why am I still typing?

I can see why people with the real dirt credentials hold their keys. and have attitude

...and too much "distance learning" and not enough "classroom time".

 

[berobinson82]

Since when is "distance learning" is a bad thing?

 

[John Ruger]

Since when is "distance learning" is a bad thing?

Not necessarily a good thing or bad thing, it's dependent on what you are able to take from it and actually apply.

 

[Poink88]

Since when is "distance learning" is a bad thing?

I agree. Learning is learning. We all learn a different way so it is not for everyone BUT so many people sneer at it so much as if it is not a viable option.

No one questions that face to face instruction is much better but to some of us...it is just not an option.

 

[mcpesq817]

Maybe I'm strange, but I like to do bonsai as a relaxing hobby It always amazes me how worked up some people get on threads like these.

Two points:

1. As Darth mentioned, the professionals need to make a living. I don't understand the view that the professionals should be using their valuable time to put together all this free material for the rest of us. I'm sure that they are busy working on their trees, rather than bickering about topics like these. That being said, there is plenty of free material out there that is put out by professionals and serious hobbyists, so we should be thankful for that. Not to mention, in my experience, professionals and serious hobbyists are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge with the rest of us, whether in demos or workshops or even online.

2. If you don't like something about the American bonsai scene, why don't you make the effort to do something about it as opposed to complaining on the internet and asking others to do things to meet your view as to how bonsai in the US should be?

 

[catfish chapstick]

...and too much "distance learning" and not enough "classroom time".

Too many old men with oversized egos

 

[Vance Wood]

Maybe I'm strange, but I like to do bonsai as a relaxing hobby It always amazes me how worked up some people get on threads like these.

Two points:

1. As Darth mentioned, the professionals need to make a living. I don't understand the view that the professionals should be using their valuable time to put together all this free material for the rest of us. I'm sure that they are busy working on their trees, rather than bickering about topics like these. That being said, there is plenty of free material out there that is put out by professionals and serious hobbyists, so we should be thankful for that. Not to mention, in my experience, professionals and serious hobbyists are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge with the rest of us, whether in demos or workshops or even online.

2. If you don't like something about the American bonsai scene, why don't you make the effort to do something about it as opposed to complaining on the internet and asking others to do things to meet your view as to how bonsai in the US should be?[/QUOTE

You have to understand the nature of the beast. There is a saying that the only way to make a small fortune in bonsai is to start out with a large one. This is for the most part true. People don't go into bonsai because the money's so good but because of the passion to do bonsai. Some can do it well enough that they can make a living but they will probably never become part of the Fortune Five-Hundred. Some professionals will post here and in other places simply because they are just as interested in the subject as you are.

 

[rockm]

"Too many old men with oversized egos"

Butting up against too many younger men with no experience and large egos...

 

[Poink88]

"Too many old men with oversized egos"

Butting up against too many younger men with no experience and large egos...

Not really. Just explaining that there is more than one way to do things. If something did not work for you, don't assume that everyone else will fail. It is as simple as that.

 

[berobinson82]

I've never seen a point illustrated on a forum so clearly as what just happened above.

I'm actually laughing in my office.

 

[tmmason10]

"Too many old men with oversized egos"

Butting up against too many younger men with no experience and large egos...

Yeah, this is true. Partially guilty.

 

[Paradox]

Bonsai in America. I dislike labeling it as "American" vs "Japanese" vs "European"
Bonsai is bonsai. It does not matter what country you are in.

To elevate bonsai in America, you need to increase awareness and exposure. Exhibitions and competitions are one means. The internet is another. You need to get more people involved in the hobby and you need to keep them in the hobby in order for it to grow. Websites like this one serve as a gateway and also should serve to encourage and nurture new people along through education, an open venue and constructive criticism. Having professional bonsai practitioners participating is a huge bonus but I think its more important to have people with years of experience around to offer guidance simply because they want to. Whether they are "professional" or not doesn't matter.

 

[Vance Wood]

"Too many old men with oversized egos"

Butting up against too many younger men with no experience and large egos...

I resemble that remark------and so do you.

 

[A Random User]

Maybe I'm strange, but I like to do bonsai as a relaxing hobby It always amazes me how worked up some people get on threads like these.

Two points:

1. As Darth mentioned, the professionals need to make a living. I don't understand the view that the professionals should be using their valuable time to put together all this free material for the rest of us. I'm sure that they are busy working on their trees, rather than bickering about topics like these. That being said, there is plenty of free material out there that is put out by professionals and serious hobbyists, so we should be thankful for that. Not to mention, in my experience, professionals and serious hobbyists are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge with the rest of us, whether in demos or workshops or even online.

2. If you don't like something about the American bonsai scene, why don't you make the effort to do something about it as opposed to complaining on the internet and asking others to do things to meet your view as to how bonsai in the US should be?

To the first point...

I don't have a problem with what you have written, or even what Darth had said, and
I agree, that not everyone has time to take out of their busy schedule to post information...
and perhaps even if they did, they might take an approach like Darth has taken, that they
worked hard to learn what they have why should they just give it away...

To this I would respond...

That first thing, I don't think we are all sitting arround expecting to get some sort of
"Free Shit"... I mean I know this whole rediculous conclusion has become somehow
"Ingrained" in the American Psyche as of late... But, it is not like folks are asking these
individuals to do their tree for them... On the contrary, I and others would still have to
do all the same leg work, make the same mistakes, still have to repot my own trees and
so on and so on...

I just feel that the more contributions they would be able to put out there that we
could all be able to take in, the more we as a society of Artist living in the US would
be able to greatly benifit from, and in turn would further the quality and status of
Bonsai in America...

Now whether you agree with me or not, fine... Or whether they feel as though they
don't want to do this... that's fine too, for they are under no obligation too do so...
But, let us not forget, that for the most part... That many are actually contributing, for
they understand as I do, that we all,including them will benifit from such an exchange.

Darth, has had a problem with quite a few of his post here, (if one was to go back and
look) of jumping off the deep end with out actually either reading what was "Actually"
posted... or not even bothering to understand what the point was that was being
put forth... Now he has the right to do this, if he so chooses... But, not the right to
change what was posted.

I feel like a broken record here... But again I never said what Darth is insisting that
I said, the following in post #147 ;

I would love to see more Bonsai Artist here in America, doing
either tutorials and videos, or Blogs of what they are doing, and how they
are doing it... Like the videos of Graham Potter we are all familiar with.

Then mentioned Brian Van Fleet and Jason who have recently posted here
at B-NUT some thread of them working on trees.

Now as to your second question...

The only thing I have complained about is folks who are comming here to
either deliberately try and get into a arguement, or folks who don't even have
the courtesy to read what was actually posted, before spewing off...

So, which are you ???

 

[A Random User]

Maybe I'm strange, but I like to do bonsai as a relaxing hobby It always amazes me how worked up some people get on threads like these.

Two points:

1. As Darth mentioned, the professionals need to make a living. I don't understand the view that the professionals should be using their valuable time to put together all this free material for the rest of us. I'm sure that they are busy working on their trees, rather than bickering about topics like these. That being said, there is plenty of free material out there that is put out by professionals and serious hobbyists, so we should be thankful for that. Not to mention, in my experience, professionals and serious hobbyists are extremely generous with sharing their knowledge with the rest of us, whether in demos or workshops or even online.

2. If you don't like something about the American bonsai scene, why don't you make the effort to do something about it as opposed to complaining on the internet and asking others to do things to meet your view as to how bonsai in the US should be?[/QUOTE

You have to understand the nature of the beast. There is a saying that the only way to make a small fortune in bonsai is to start out with a large one. This is for the most part true. People don't go into bonsai because the money's so good but because of the passion to do bonsai. Some can do it well enough that they can make a living but they will probably never become part of the Fortune Five-Hundred. Some professionals will post here and in other places simply because they are just as interested in the subject as you are.

Vance, I thank you for your post... see we can all get along...

Also, would like to thak you personally for the contributions that
you yourself have contibuted too furthering the Art of Bonsai in
America.

This does not mean I like you though... Ha, ha, ha
Actually, never met you and have no hard feelings towards you,
just disagree sometimes...

 

[A Random User]

"Too many old men with oversized egos"

Butting up against too many younger men with no experience and large egos...

I understand where you are going with this...

BUT...

I think it is quite "nieve" to just "assume" that the person on the other
end of the screen typing what some might "disagree" with
does not actually know what their talking about...

As some clearly do here at B-Nut...

But I guess this falls into your "Too many old men with oversized egos"
category...

Sad part is it does nothing too "actually" benifit anyone...

 

[A Random User]

Bonsai in America. I dislike labeling it as "American" vs "Japanese" vs "European"
Bonsai is bonsai. It does not matter what country you are in.

To elevate bonsai in America, you need to increase awareness and exposure. Exhibitions and competitions are one means. The internet is another. You need to get more people involved in the hobby and you need to keep them in the hobby in order for it to grow. Websites like this one serve as a gateway and also should serve to encourage and nurture new people along through education, an open venue and constructive criticism. Having professional bonsai practitioners participating is a huge bonus but I think its more important to have people with years of experience around to offer guidance simply because they want to. Whether they are "professional" or not doesn't matter.

I thank you my friend for posting what you have...
you are a beaconing light in a world so full of doom.

By my posting "American Bonsai", in the thread title,
though, I was not meaning so much that there is some
type of category of just American Bonsai... but merely
trying to discuss Bonsai in America...

As to the rest of what you have posted, I personally
couldn't agree more...

 

[mcpesq817]

Quotes from you:

"Ok... here is what I would like to see more of in America...
I would love to see more Shows, and even more competitions...
Now I know there are a lot... but I personally think there could be
more..."

"another thing I personally would like to see is more post,
about things being done that are either creative and or, solve
a problem, which might give others here some ideas...
IE; my hand painting of a pot, which can be found here..."

"I would love to see more Bonsai Artist here in America, doing
either tutorials and videos, or Blogs of what they are doing, and how they
are doing it... Like the videos of Graham Potter we are all familiar with."


Sounds to me that you would like others to put more content out there for free public consumption. My point was merely that if you think there is a void somewhere, why don't you try to fill it? Organize a show with your club, do a video, etc.


Oh, and not to be snarky as I'm not the spelling police, but the word is spelled "ridiculous" and not "rediculous." People on Bnut misspell it all the time!

 

[A Random User]

Quotes from you:

"Ok... here is what I would like to see more of in America...
I would love to see more Shows, and even more competitions...
Now I know there are a lot... but I personally think there could be
more..."

"another thing I personally would like to see is more post,
about things being done that are either creative and or, solve
a problem, which might give others here some ideas...
IE; my hand painting of a pot, which can be found here..."

"I would love to see more Bonsai Artist here in America, doing
either tutorials and videos, or Blogs of what they are doing, and how they
are doing it... Like the videos of Graham Potter we are all familiar with."


Sounds to me that you would like others to put more content out there for free public consumption. My point was merely that if you think there is a void somewhere, why don't you try to fill it? Organize a show with your club, do a video, etc.


Oh, and not to be snarky as I'm not the spelling police, but the word is spelled "ridiculous" and not "rediculous." People on Bnut misspell it all the time!

Thanks for your reply...
I have always been terrible with spelling...
So thanks for the correction...

Also, I want to appologize for my thread then... seeing that you were
putting forth an actual serious question... However, you must understand
that for the most part, this has not necessarily been the case with most of
the replies I have gotten...

I am currently working on doing some of the things that you have suggested
and will be posting some as soon as I am able. I do think there are alot of
voids to be filled... which is the reason why I posted all that you have quoted
me as doing.

My intent was, not to try and inquire "free" stuff, or to suggest things that
others could do... but, more for us all to kinda brainstorm so to speak, and to
possibly come up with ways, and ideas of improving Bonsai in America...

And then there was trying to get the whole discussion back on track...
seeing that it was going every which way at the time.

 

[catfish chapstick]

Oh, and not to be snarky as I'm not the spelling police, but the word is spelled "ridiculous" and not "rediculous." People on Bnut misspell it all the time!

It's true, I am a terrible speller. I should be called out and held accountable. I'll try not to do it again. I'm not making excuses for my behavior, I swear. Some people are much better spellers than me. It's probably because I have never had a spelling master to teach me the correct way to spell words. Again, it's no excuse. I am guilty.