Post em' Up! Non-Coniferous Yamadori in the Americas
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ColinFraser
Masterpiece
Ugh, that's the worst. I hate those moments.
ColinFraser
Masterpiece
. . . and yet, a simple search reveals pages of posts of you using that word in reference to your own trees. What changed?
michaelj
Chumono
Seeing the YAGE post, so many of which come in response to just a couple of aggressive members, I went back and looked at the volleys in this thread, and I don't understand why people jumped on Benjeh's case to begin with. I did not take Bunjeh's first comment as a challenge or a rip on others' posts, nor did I read any arrogance or "legend in his own mind" implications.
In fact, I kind of thought the same thing as Bunjeh. The first photos in the thread were really nice collected trees or trees taken from the wild, or both, and while I have some collected non-coniferous material in my garden, none of it is true yamadori, either. I have a crappy little cottonwood, an oak that someone else collected from a friend's field, and a bunch of urban stuff, mostly elms. I might casually call that stuff yamadori, like Bunjeh does with his hawthorns, but it's really not - I might get mocked if I posted it and called it yamadori - and it's certainly not on par with the stuff Anthony and Sawgrass posted at the top of the thread.
Actually, Vance, your question contained assumptions. "I would also be interested in why you would throw down a sort of challenge or submit a critique but refuse to post your own evidence as to what is or is not true Yamadori?" That assumed Bunjeh was intentionally being a dick when he wrote what he wrote. It implied that he was crapping on everyone else's submissions, which I didn't read into it at all. And saying he refused to post his own evidence as to what is true yamadori? What does that even mean? What would constitute "evidence" of what a true yamadori is?
In fact, I kind of thought the same thing as Bunjeh. The first photos in the thread were really nice collected trees or trees taken from the wild, or both, and while I have some collected non-coniferous material in my garden, none of it is true yamadori, either. I have a crappy little cottonwood, an oak that someone else collected from a friend's field, and a bunch of urban stuff, mostly elms. I might casually call that stuff yamadori, like Bunjeh does with his hawthorns, but it's really not - I might get mocked if I posted it and called it yamadori - and it's certainly not on par with the stuff Anthony and Sawgrass posted at the top of the thread.
Actually, Vance, your question contained assumptions. "I would also be interested in why you would throw down a sort of challenge or submit a critique but refuse to post your own evidence as to what is or is not true Yamadori?" That assumed Bunjeh was intentionally being a dick when he wrote what he wrote. It implied that he was crapping on everyone else's submissions, which I didn't read into it at all. And saying he refused to post his own evidence as to what is true yamadori? What does that even mean? What would constitute "evidence" of what a true yamadori is?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You can believe what you want, I know what I said and what I meant. Take it any way you want. At this point I can't do anything but make it worse.
michaelj
Chumono
Everyone knows what you said, and as to most of it, everyone knows what you meant (the assumption about throwing down a sort of challenge or submitting a critique is fairly transparent), but I don't think anyone knows what you meant by "refusing to post evidence as to what is true yamadori".
Since you don't want to answer the question, perhaps someone else can explain that one to me.
Since you don't want to answer the question, perhaps someone else can explain that one to me.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Let me guess - another fight involving Vance Wood, right? Surprise, surprise.
Only seeing one side of it but I can imagine pretty well what is going on.
Only seeing one side of it but I can imagine pretty well what is going on.
jomawa
Shohin
Assume makes an ass of you and me, but I didn't learn that in kindergarten.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
In his original post:
Bunjeh said: ↑
I will not be posting. Though I have numerous collected non-coniferous trees, I have yet to uncover true "Yamadori".
The implication was made, either on purpose or accidentally, that he had all of these trees but he would not be posting any of them here. To me this sounded condescending, as though only he was aware of how little we understand what a Yamadori is. Possibly suggesting that we were below his abilites that he would not wast the time to share them. I did ask him to explain, which he did not. So I posted what I posted. I have no answer for the others who have crept out of the wood work to pile on. That's fine too. At least you are posting. Though it is sad sometimes that one of the things that causes some of you to post is an opportunity to take a shot at me. The rest of the time you seem to sit back and do nothing and say less.
Bunjeh said: ↑
I will not be posting. Though I have numerous collected non-coniferous trees, I have yet to uncover true "Yamadori".
The implication was made, either on purpose or accidentally, that he had all of these trees but he would not be posting any of them here. To me this sounded condescending, as though only he was aware of how little we understand what a Yamadori is. Possibly suggesting that we were below his abilites that he would not wast the time to share them. I did ask him to explain, which he did not. So I posted what I posted. I have no answer for the others who have crept out of the wood work to pile on. That's fine too. At least you are posting. Though it is sad sometimes that one of the things that causes some of you to post is an opportunity to take a shot at me. The rest of the time you seem to sit back and do nothing and say less.
jomawa
Shohin
Just saying.
As a hobby/infant bonsaist, I actually did bring back form the woods a few "Yamadori" vine maples with eighth inch minus trunks. Saw them as new starts with lots of short internodes so I pulled them up and brought em' home, (see avatar). Though all my other plants are budding out, "whimsy" isn't yet (hopefully she died, uh, I mean, uh, maybe she died, but I digress).
Googling "yamadori" brings up Japanese use the term to describe trees collected from the wild, buuut it goes on to say there's a deeper meaning to the term. I could be crucified for calling my vine maples yamadori if bonsaists could reach me, but as it is I'm simply part of the never ending cycle of newbies who become the laughing stock on bnut for their infantile ways and terms concerning bonsai.
When I first read Bunjeh's one line statement (without him further explaining what he meant), I simply "assumed" he had somewhat of a grasp of the real Japanese meaning of the word yamadori, the idea that many plants are not "worthy" to be dug up and removed from wherever, or that what he did dig up were/was truely not "worthy". (It didn't make one lick of difference to me how many or few yamadori or bonsai he had.)
Do I think you overstepped the boundaries in your critique? Yep.
Do I think Bunjeh's retort was appropriate considering? Yep.
Do I think it's sad Bunjeh is deciding to leave? Yep.
Do I think the laughing at his decision to go is sad? Yep.
Do I have a macabre fascination with this crazy thing called bnut? Yep.
Again, just saying.
As a hobby/infant bonsaist, I actually did bring back form the woods a few "Yamadori" vine maples with eighth inch minus trunks. Saw them as new starts with lots of short internodes so I pulled them up and brought em' home, (see avatar). Though all my other plants are budding out, "whimsy" isn't yet (hopefully she died, uh, I mean, uh, maybe she died, but I digress).
Googling "yamadori" brings up Japanese use the term to describe trees collected from the wild, buuut it goes on to say there's a deeper meaning to the term. I could be crucified for calling my vine maples yamadori if bonsaists could reach me, but as it is I'm simply part of the never ending cycle of newbies who become the laughing stock on bnut for their infantile ways and terms concerning bonsai.
When I first read Bunjeh's one line statement (without him further explaining what he meant), I simply "assumed" he had somewhat of a grasp of the real Japanese meaning of the word yamadori, the idea that many plants are not "worthy" to be dug up and removed from wherever, or that what he did dig up were/was truely not "worthy". (It didn't make one lick of difference to me how many or few yamadori or bonsai he had.)
Do I think you overstepped the boundaries in your critique? Yep.
Do I think Bunjeh's retort was appropriate considering? Yep.
Do I think it's sad Bunjeh is deciding to leave? Yep.
Do I think the laughing at his decision to go is sad? Yep.
Do I have a macabre fascination with this crazy thing called bnut? Yep.
Again, just saying.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
He figured out what Yamadori really is.
Maybe he doesn't think his are anymore.
Members come.
Members go.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Well in the spirit of my many years of having to endure this kind of thing bloated out of perspective: Do I care what you think? Nope
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
By the way I think what I wrote after my question was ignored was intelligent and spot on. I did not tell him to shove his post up his ass as I was instructed to do, where the trees would grow really well because of all of the shit up there. Post 118 I said in response to Bunji's statement: I would be interested in your thoughts as to what a true Yamadori actually is? I would also be interested in why you would throw down a sort of challenge or submit a critique but refuse to post your own evidence as to what is or is not true Yamadori?
Page 9 post 177 two pages later and 50 posts along the road I wrote thinking the question was going to be ignored:
The above statement, is the original concept of principle set forth by Bunjeh: My reply after waiting for a response. Before you can uncover the legendary true Yamadori I believe it is first necessary to define exactly what that is. So-----What is a true Yamidore?
In my experience on the forum for very many years I have found that many of the most condescending, and arrogant statements, like that above, come from people that are literally legends in their own minds. They read a few books, watch some INTERNET videos, smoke a doobie and dream about how wonderful their personal vision of bonsai is.
They then feel it necessary to post information telling us how off track our vision of bonsai is. Finding themselves unable to post images of their own trees because, they do not exist except in their own minds they suggest they have many. Knowing that what they believe feels right and therefore, must be true, they speak their minds not realizing they are more akin to a fart in a crowded elevator, than a voice from on high declaring the truth of a bonsai god. Therefore we get the following, posted as though we mere mortals are unworthy of viewing this amazing display of bonsai creations.
I will not be posting. I have numerous collected non-coniferous trees, I have yet to uncover true "Yamadori". Bunjeh
Vance Wood, Thursday at 9:08 AMReport
#177Reply
Page 10 post 191 we get Bunjeh's brilliant reply: That the is the most condescending and arrogant rant I have ever heard. When I posted that originally, I was refering to my own experience. At that time I had yet to collect anything that I felt compared to the great examples that I have seen from the likes of some of the pros on this site, yourself included. Sad, I used to respect and admire your work. However, now I realize you are nothing more than a self-agrandizing prick.
So go shove your "Yamadori" up your ass. I bet it will develop a great root structure considering all the fertilizer packed up there. Bitch!
That's it the entire ugly event.
Page 9 post 177 two pages later and 50 posts along the road I wrote thinking the question was going to be ignored:
The above statement, is the original concept of principle set forth by Bunjeh: My reply after waiting for a response. Before you can uncover the legendary true Yamadori I believe it is first necessary to define exactly what that is. So-----What is a true Yamidore?
In my experience on the forum for very many years I have found that many of the most condescending, and arrogant statements, like that above, come from people that are literally legends in their own minds. They read a few books, watch some INTERNET videos, smoke a doobie and dream about how wonderful their personal vision of bonsai is.
They then feel it necessary to post information telling us how off track our vision of bonsai is. Finding themselves unable to post images of their own trees because, they do not exist except in their own minds they suggest they have many. Knowing that what they believe feels right and therefore, must be true, they speak their minds not realizing they are more akin to a fart in a crowded elevator, than a voice from on high declaring the truth of a bonsai god. Therefore we get the following, posted as though we mere mortals are unworthy of viewing this amazing display of bonsai creations.
I will not be posting. I have numerous collected non-coniferous trees, I have yet to uncover true "Yamadori". Bunjeh
Vance Wood, Thursday at 9:08 AMReport
#177Reply
Page 10 post 191 we get Bunjeh's brilliant reply: That the is the most condescending and arrogant rant I have ever heard. When I posted that originally, I was refering to my own experience. At that time I had yet to collect anything that I felt compared to the great examples that I have seen from the likes of some of the pros on this site, yourself included. Sad, I used to respect and admire your work. However, now I realize you are nothing more than a self-agrandizing prick.
So go shove your "Yamadori" up your ass. I bet it will develop a great root structure considering all the fertilizer packed up there. Bitch!
That's it the entire ugly event.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Vance please, he said he wanted to move on but you keep dragging it out. Stop trying to have the last word and get over it.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It is surprising to me how these post bring out only the best people, it's a tuxedo event, ----and I'm wearing brown shoes. I'm over it.
Why did you find it necessary to say something about it? What does that mean, get over it? I have to drop trou and endure a hefty kick in the ass from everyone who has a mind to do so?
Just remember one thing. When any one of you has a problem with a tree or needs an idea I am always there even if I know you think I am a pile of excrament. If I have an answer I will provide it.
Why did you find it necessary to say something about it? What does that mean, get over it? I have to drop trou and endure a hefty kick in the ass from everyone who has a mind to do so?
Just remember one thing. When any one of you has a problem with a tree or needs an idea I am always there even if I know you think I am a pile of excrament. If I have an answer I will provide it.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Because you're contributing to the destruction of this thread? Bunjeh asked to move on, but you can't let him have the last word.
I respect you and the knowledge you contribute here Vance, but you need to learn when to be the bigger man and when to just stop fanning the flames.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
By "uncover",
Bunjeh meant, for himself.
Not uncover, to us.
That was just misunderstood.
I got a pretty bitchin elm the other day.
I'll post it soon.
Sorce
Bunjeh meant, for himself.
Not uncover, to us.
That was just misunderstood.
I got a pretty bitchin elm the other day.
I'll post it soon.
Sorce
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I don't mean or want to confront you but you are trying to make me believe that you care about this thread when in fact you have only made your first post here in post 235 and again in post 237? Where have you been during the last twelve pages and 238 posts. You did not say anything relevant about this post but only to scold me. Do you only surface to take your shot. I am beginning to think this is personal with you. I wont say another word unless provoked.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Once again, Vance is the victim in this thread and did nothing to contribute to its derailing 
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