Plants Moving To A Balcony, Scared They Won't Get Enough Light

[Tinybird420]

In a few weeks me and my mom are gonna be moving to an apartment. Unfortunately the only place my pre-bonsai can go will be on our north facing balcony. (The trees I have are; 1 silver maple, 2 black cherry trees, and 2 pin oaks) I'm from NE Ohio so north facing isn't great. They'll be moving from the south facing backyard they're at now where they get maybe 6-ish hours of direct sun a day. (The massive oak tree and other houses shade them enough times a day that they don't get all hours of full sun.)

I looked up my place on Google maps streetview and I'm kinda terrified. It looks like it's completely shaded for most of the day. I also checked sun-calc and it appears that they'll *maybe* get only two hours of direct sun... That's for end of August at least. There is one spot by the side of our place that looks like it gets decent consistent sun, but this apartment complex is more HOA-y so they don't want anything out of place. They're very strict.

How can I get these plants more light? Should I buy an outdoor grow light? IDK if those are any good. I have a very good grow light that's usually meant for growing cannabis in a grow tent but IDK if it can be used safely outside. Bonkers idea but should I grow them inside in the grow tent and then put them on the balcony for winter? IDK I'm wracking my brain for anything because I'm so afraid these trees are gonna die . As far as I know when a plant gets damaged/diseased it uses sunlight to heal, so less sunlight = less of a chance to successfully heal.

Thanks in advance for the help!

(The last picture is showing what is across from my balcony.)

 

[simoncools]

If you have no other option, a balcony with little sunlight is still better than putting them indoors imo.
It's definitely not ideal for growth but even if not in direct sunlight, the light level there will probably still be higher than most grow lights.

You'd be suprised how bright a shaded area can be on a sunny day when compared to artificial lighting.

 

[Tinybird420]

If you have no other option, a balcony with little sunlight is still better than putting them indoors imo.
It's definitely not ideal for growth but even if not in direct sunlight, the light level there will probably still be higher than most grow lights.

You'd be suprised how bright a shaded area can be on a sunny day when compared to artificial lighting.

I hope so. I have a light meter so I can check what level the shade is tomorrow. The grow light mimicks full sun IIRC so it may be more foot-candles than outside shade IDK.

This is the grow light. https://a.co/d/5EycVBW

 

[BrianBay9]

Have you considered switching to some more shade tolerant species? Boxwood do well in more shade. Elms, hornbeam, Japanese maples are understory trees.

 

[Michael P]

There is a very good free app for smart phones called "Photone". It uses the camera as a PPFD meter, and can be set for different light sources: sunlight, fluorescent, LED, etc.

 

[souvik1811]

You could use the grow light before and after the sunlight period as supplement. You can keep them ON for a long time before and after. I get around 4-5 hours of direct sunlight on a east facing balcony depending on the time of year, but I switch ON my artificial lights for around 10 hours put together - before and after the 5 hours of sun. The only challenge is moving them out to the sun, and then huddling them back under the light everyday - not optimal. Also, you could get 100 watt led floodlights (white - 6500k), which is what I use and could be much cheaper than professional grow lights. Anything is better than nothing.

I dont know how HOAs work in the US, but if the entire place is yours, couldn't you put a bench up on the front yard which seems very sunny?

 

[Tinybird420]

Have you considered switching to some more shade tolerant species? Boxwood do well in more shade. Elms, hornbeam, Japanese maples are understory trees.

Well I only like to grow trees native to me but I could look for shade tolerant species that's a good point. I really don't wanna have to get rid of my trees though . I feel like I remember reading that the black cherry might classify as an understory tree so maybe they'll be okay.

 

[Tinybird420]

There is a very good free app for smart phones called "Photone". It uses the camera as a PPFD meter, and can be set for different light sources: sunlight, fluorescent, LED, etc.

I'll check this out ty! I actually have a separate light meter. Though it doesn't calculate VPD which I've heard is an even better metric to go by.

 

[Tinybird420]

You could use the grow light before and after the sunlight period as supplement. You can keep them ON for a long time before and after. I get around 4-5 hours of direct sunlight on a east facing balcony depending on the time of year, but I switch ON my artificial lights for around 10 hours put together - before and after the 5 hours of sun. The only challenge is moving them out to the sun, and then huddling them back under the light everyday - not optimal. Also, you could get 100 watt led floodlights (white - 6500k), which is what I use and could be much cheaper than professional grow lights. Anything is better than nothing.

I dont know how HOAs work in the US, but if the entire place is yours, couldn't you put a bench up on the front yard which seems very sunny?

Ooh yeah that seems a lot cheaper! I'll look into those thank you very much.

Well unfortunately everything outside our apartment door is property of the apartment complex and they like things very very prim and proper . Fuckin sucks lol. First I'm fighting the shade from a massive oak tree and now it's landlords...

 

[Russ1]

What do you have for Foot Candles? I grow Brazilian Rain Trees, a very sun loving tropical with tiny, dense leaves and from mid Sept to end of May they grow indoors under 5000k lights at 450 foot candles just fine, I have raised it, almost doubled it, for this coming Fall and Winter so I get more light to the lower and inner branches and because they have grown so i had to lower the shelf they are on. During Summer outside I have them under 55% shade screen just to keep the lighting more consistent at around 1250 foot candles. It does vary +/- throughout the day and seasons.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Balconies, because they are up off the ground get much more light even when in the shade. Especially 2nd floor and above are often quite bright, even in north facing settings.

Also keeping the collection looking "neat & orderly", I was renting a place in my early years, and let my balcony collection look cluttered, messy, and let water rain down when I drenched my trees. this annoyed the landlord to the point where he refused to renew the lease. So I went and bought a house where I could be as messy as I want.

Wintering trees on balconies is a little tricky. I have been told Styrofoam coolers, or other insulated boxes, just to slow the speed of temperature changes really help. Set the trees in the coolers after they have frozen. Then leave them there until warmer weather in spring. Some punch a few vent holes in the coolers. Some don't. This is the reason cheap coolers are recommended. The key is to slow the rapid temp cycles. You want the trees to freeze once, stay frozen most of the winter, then thaw in spring and only get light frosts after the initial spring thaw.

 

[blackadam]

other insulated boxes

Saw some boxes in books, just builded a frame, need to get styrofoam for walls and floor.
Both books i checked suggested foil coverd frame as a cover.
I hope my plants survive

 

[Tinybird420]

What do you have for Foot Candles? I grow Brazilian Rain Trees, a very sun loving tropical with tiny, dense leaves and from mid Sept to end of May they grow indoors under 5000k lights at 450 foot candles just fine, I have raised it, almost doubled it, for this coming Fall and Winter so I get more light to the lower and inner branches and because they have grown so i had to lower the shelf they are on. During Summer outside I have them under 55% shade screen just to keep the lighting more consistent at around 1250 foot candles. It does vary +/- throughout the day and seasons.

Oh wow, all those amounts of FC you listed are pretty low so this gives me hope thank you ! When I move I'll use my light meter on the balcony and see what it says during shade.

Also there's a Brazilian Raintree on the tree lawn near my house. Don't ask me why my city planted Brazilian Raintrees in Ohio lol... I have no idea. Wish they'd keep it native 100%.

 

[Tinybird420]

Balconies, because they are up off the ground get much more light even when in the shade. Especially 2nd floor and above are often quite bright, even in north facing settings.

Also keeping the collection looking "neat & orderly", I was renting a place in my early years, and let my balcony collection look cluttered, messy, and let water rain down when I drenched my trees. this annoyed the landlord to the point where he refused to renew the lease. So I went and bought a house where I could be as messy as I want.

Wintering trees on balconies is a little tricky. I have been told Styrofoam coolers, or other insulated boxes, just to slow the speed of temperature changes really help. Set the trees in the coolers after they have frozen. Then leave them there until warmer weather in spring. Some punch a few vent holes in the coolers. Some don't. This is the reason cheap coolers are recommended. The key is to slow the rapid temp cycles. You want the trees to freeze once, stay frozen most of the winter, then thaw in spring and only get light frosts after the initial spring thaw.

Okay that gives me hope ty!

Thanks for the tip! My plan was to put each pot in a slightly bigger pot and then line the in-between space with coco coir for insulation. Do you think that will work?

Also quick question since you're talking about winter. How do you prevent the soil of your evergreens from freezing? They need to be watered more than deciduous trees during winter obviously and I killed a wintergreen plant (Gaultheria Procumbens) because the soil froze and thus I couldn't water it. I fuckin love wintergreen and wanna grow it again. I'm thinking of trying the burying the pot in another pot method like I explained above.

 

[Russ1]

Also there's a Brazilian Raintree on the tree lawn near my house

Probably not a BRT but a relative, a Mimosa. Same type of flowers and foliage but the Mimosa is hardy to zone 6, the BRT not so much. Even then I have seen Mimosa trees die from a bad winter here..

 

[Tinybird420]

Probably not a BRT but a relative, a Mimosa. Same type of flowers and foliage but the Mimosa is hardy to zone 6, the BRT not so much. Even then I have seen Mimosa trees die from a bad winter here..

Oh interesting ty for the info. It could be a mimosa. Still not native to Ohio though unfortunately.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Oh wow, all those amounts of FC you listed are pretty low so this gives me hope thank you ! When I move I'll use my light meter on the balcony and see what it says during shade.

Also there's a Brazilian Raintree on the tree lawn near my house. Don't ask me why my city planted Brazilian Raintrees in Ohio lol... I have no idea. Wish they'd keep it native 100%.

In northeast Ohio, the winters are generally zone 5b to 6b depending on exact location and whether you are in a Lake Erie microclimate. This means your "maybe Brazilian rain tree" is most likely a species of genus Robinia. If it has white flowers, it is likely Robinia pseudoacacia, the "black locust". If it has purple flowers it is likely Robinia hispida, R hispida is planted as an ornamental. R. pseudoacacia is more often than not an invasive, rarely planted on purpose. I love the fragrant flowers of pseudoacacia, oddly it has proven difficult for me to keep alive in a pot for bonsai. It goes wild in the ground, but in a pot, not so easy, at least for me.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Okay that gives me hope ty!

Thanks for the tip! My plan was to put each pot in a slightly bigger pot and then line the in-between space with coco coir for insulation. Do you think that will work?

Also quick question since you're talking about winter. How do you prevent the soil of your evergreens from freezing? They need to be watered more than deciduous trees during winter obviously and I killed a wintergreen plant (Gaultheria Procumbens) because the soil froze and thus I couldn't water it. I fuckin love wintergreen and wanna grow it again. I'm thinking of trying the burying the pot in another pot method like I explained above.

I bought a house in 1980 so I would not have to deal with wintering trees on a balcony. I winter trees hardy to zones 5 and colder by simply setting their pots on the ground and applying a little mulch after the ground has frozen. Trees that are not fully winter hardy get wintered in my well house, an unheated, below ground "room" that is an extension of the foundation of the house. The well house usually runs between just above freezing and 40 F all winter. So I don't have any recent experience wintering trees on a balcony. It was a frustration for me back in the 1970's.

I think the pot in pot of coir will simply not be enough winter protection. I would at least set the trees in boxes or coolers, The trunks and branches also need to be protected from rapid temperature changes and dehydrating winds while soils are frozen. While temperatures are below 40 F, tree metabolism is slow enough that light is not needed. Putting a tree in a cooler for 3 months during the cold part of winter is not a problem, even for evergreens.

Last, Gautheria is not an easy plant to keep happy in a pot, it is quite particular about soil conditions. It needs a pH similar to what a blueberry needs, which is far more acidic than what an azalea would like. By the way, Gautheria procumbens will survive freezing in winter, but key is that when the roots freeze, it likes the roots to freeze once, stay frozen, then thaw once. Repeated cycles of freezing and thawing will kill it. Though more likely it is soil incompatibility is the main cause of death. New roots are produced in early spring, if it doesn't like the soil, this is one of the times it will die. Try a potting mix based on fir bark and peat moss roughly 50:50, add some perlite if the mix seems heavy. "Regular" soils will not work. You might try Kanuma as potting medium, if you want a bonsai soil, but I don't think Kanuma is acidic enough for Gautheria. Myself I would just accept that Gautheria is one of the plants that is just not "growable" in an apartment setting. But that is me. Everyone likes a challenge.

Actually, I have seen Gautheria offered by commercial plant nurseries in pots. It can't be that difficult, if it is a nursery stock regular. I don't know the tricks, you will have to work it out. Maybe one of the BNutters has more experience and can offer advice.

 

[penumbra]

Nothing to add as it has been well covered, but additional lighting is beneficial IMO, even when sun is out. And as mentioned, they are great to extend your photo period. I have used them outside to good effect. And not to trash your Spyder Farmer lights, (I have 6 of them) but there are much more powerful units than the ones you have in both Spyder Farmer and others.
Best of luck to you. I believe you have the passion it takes to make it work.

 

[Tinybird420]

I bought a house in 1980 so I would not have to deal with wintering trees on a balcony. I winter trees hardy to zones 5 and colder by simply setting their pots on the ground and applying a little mulch after the ground has frozen. Trees that are not fully winter hardy get wintered in my well house, an unheated, below ground "room" that is an extension of the foundation of the house. The well house usually runs between just above freezing and 40 F all winter. So I don't have any recent experience wintering trees on a balcony. It was a frustration for me back in the 1970's.

I think the pot in pot of coir will simply not be enough winter protection. I would at least set the trees in boxes or coolers, The trunks and branches also need to be protected from rapid temperature changes and dehydrating winds while soils are frozen. While temperatures are below 40 F, tree metabolism is slow enough that light is not needed. Putting a tree in a cooler for 3 months during the cold part of winter is not a problem, even for evergreens.

Last, Gautheria is not an easy plant to keep happy in a pot, it is quite particular about soil conditions. It needs a pH similar to what a blueberry needs, which is far more acidic than what an azalea would like. By the way, Gautheria procumbens will survive freezing in winter, but key is that when the roots freeze, it likes the roots to freeze once, stay frozen, then thaw once. Repeated cycles of freezing and thawing will kill it. Though more likely it is soil incompatibility is the main cause of death. New roots are produced in early spring, if it doesn't like the soil, this is one of the times it will die. Try a potting mix based on fir bark and peat moss roughly 50:50, add some perlite if the mix seems heavy. "Regular" soils will not work. You might try Kanuma as potting medium, if you want a bonsai soil, but I don't think Kanuma is acidic enough for Gautheria. Myself I would just accept that Gautheria is one of the plants that is just not "growable" in an apartment setting. But that is me. Everyone likes a challenge.

Actually, I have seen Gautheria offered by commercial plant nurseries in pots. It can't be that difficult, if it is a nursery stock regular. I don't know the tricks, you will have to work it out. Maybe one of the BNutters has more experience and can offer advice.

Thank you for the tips. So when you put them in a cooler, do you fill the cooler with any mulch/soil? And how do you cover the top of the tree? I didn't the I needed to cover the top as long as the roots are cozy but IDK.

Oh yeah I have soil acidifier and I have experience acidifying soil for blueberries. I think you're right that 50/50 is a good soil mix for the wintergreen. And I think the thawing and rethawing is exactly why mine died. I had no idea ty. So one more question, if it's okay for the wintergreen roots to be frozen all winter, does that mean I don't need to water it at all so long as they're frozen?