pinus thunbergii slowly dying help!

[GunGoose]

I have a pinus thunbergii plant that I have grown from seed. It is about 2 and a half years old and seem to be going down hill. The needles from the tree have slowly started to lose color. I am unsure what I am doing wrong as I have another pinus thunbergii that I have cared for in a similar way and seems to be healthy and has new growth (although it does seem to be growing slowly). I have currently kept the plant indoors near a window sill. I live in a place with a lot a shade and do not have good access to sunny area. To counter act this I have it under a plant light. I water it when the soil gets dry which is usually about every 1.5 weeks and will mix in some fertilizer to the water every 2nd or 3rd watering. I currently live in the Washington with a hardness zone is 8a. I read that usually pinus thunbergii are kept outside, but the outside area I have access to is quite shady and as I said my other pinus thunbergii is doing fine. I think the healthy pinus thunbergii might be getting a little bit more light, but it should not be that much more.

I attached 2 pictures of the unhealthy tree below and 1 of the healthy tree.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

1.5 weeks to dry the soil in an indoor environment is slow. So there is a lack of oxygen around the root system, probably.
Indoors it's basically a hostile environment for them too, so it's likely you have one strong plant and one weaker one. The stronger one will follow the same path.
It's not just the light, it's the whole stable indoor environment that they don't like.

 

[Shibui]

Indoors is definitely a challenge. When conifers get to that stage they are almost always dead and the foliage is just showing the results.
I agree that it's likely the remaining tree is just a bit stronger and will probably soon follow the first but for your sake I hope we are wrong.
With indoors the only option I would encourage you to explore ficus and other tropical trees as possible bonsai options. They seem to manage conditions indoors so much better than conifers.

 

[GunGoose]

Interesting, I would have not suspected that to be the issue. Do I need the roots to dry out faster or just water it more frequently despite the soil still being damp? There might be a chance I can find a stop outside or at least give it some time outside. Even if I fail to resuscitate it, this is good to know as I can take better care of the healthier one now.

I do have a jacaranda Mimosiolia which I think is a more tropical tree and that seems to be doing fine indoors.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Paradox]

It may not be the whole issue but it's definitely part.

Most trees simply can not be grown indoors.
Also pines are said to not like "wet feet" so the soil being very wet that long is another problem. As an example, my pines outside get watered just before the soil starts to get dry and I use a very open inorganic soil mix that drains well and doesn’t stay sopping wet.

 

[rockm]

Indoors is the whole issue. Pines will not survive indoors. They require extreme light (direct sun) to survive. The lack of light leads to other issues, including root problems, mite infestations and other stuff. All that develops because the plant weakens substantially without adequate lighting, which opens the door to those other issues.

Light indoors is up to 500 times less bright that outdoors. Even the brightest light indoors is roughly the equivalent of shade outside. Even in the shade outside, the plant would be getting a lot more sunlight than anywhere inside.

The plant isn't using water because it's not actively growing. It would require a lot more water if it was active.

Your tropical plants are better adapted to lower light conditions than a conifer. They evolved in radically different environments

 

[TrevorLarsen]

If you are growing inside I think Jack Wikle has some good information. He is the only person I have heard of that has mastered growing bonsai indoors.

http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html

 

[Paradox]

If you are growing inside I think Jack Wikle has some good information. He is the only person I have heard of that has mastered growing bonsai indoors.

http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html

None of the things he successfully grew indoors were pines though. He mentions trying them but they all eventually declined.

He was successful with juniper but it must be noted that he had a fairly elaborate setup that not everyone has the space to dedicate to.

Aa you mentioned, He is also pretty much the only person to do it with anything other than tropicals. If it were so easy, everyone would be growing their trees indoors

 

[TrevorLarsen]

None of the things he successfully grew indoors were pines though. He mentions trying them but they all eventually declined.

He was successful with juniper but it must be noted that he had a fairly elaborate setup that not everyone has the space to dedicate to.

Aa you mentioned, He is also pretty much the only person to do it with anything other than tropicals. If it were so easy, everyone would be growing their trees indoors

Agreed it’s not easy but it is possible. If it is your only option I would try to copy him as much as you can maybe you can also be successful. Of corse if you have the option to grow outside that is easier and more likely to work.

 

[Tele]

Interesting, I would have not suspected that to be the issue. Do I need the roots to dry out faster or just water it more frequently despite the soil still being damp? There might be a chance I can find a stop outside or at least give it some time outside. Even if I fail to resuscitate it, this is good to know as I can take better care of the healthier one now.

I do have a jacaranda Mimosiolia which I think is a more tropical tree and that seems to be doing fine indoors.

Thanks for the help!

Some people do magic inside. We did it too in the past living in a huge farmhouse but do not waste your time making the impossible happen.

You can put pines inside a few hours just to brag when people come visiting.

 

[jevanlewis]

Agreed it’s not easy but it is possible. If it is your only option I would try to copy him as much as you can maybe you can also be successful. Of corse if you have the option to grow outside that is easier and more likely to work.

With pines that need a cold dormant period, it is not possible. He even says the same: "Theoretically any tree, shrub or vine that doesn't require a cold, dormant period to thrive is a possibility."

 

[BrightsideB]

If you have a lot of shade look into species that do not require full sun and grow outside in your climate so nature can help you take care of your tree’s. And if you can only grow indoors take the advice from @Shibui. Pines need full sun otherwise they will remain on the verge of death and hardly grow.

 

[kodiac]

It's toast sorry pines like wind sun rain and a annual 5 month nap

 

[GunGoose]

Thanks for the advice! I think I found a sunny spot for them so I will see if I can bring them back. I am now worrying about some of my other plant experience as I have been trying to grow some apple and pear plants from seed. Maybe I should try to put those outside as well....

I would have thought that tropical plants would do worse indoors and the pines would to fine, so this is good to know.

 

[Paradox]

Thanks for the advice! I think I found a sunny spot for them so I will see if I can bring them back. I am now worrying about some of my other plant experience as I have been trying to grow some apple and pear plants from seed. Maybe I should try to put those outside as well....

I would have thought that tropical plants would do worse indoors and the pines would to fine, so this is good to know.

Tropicals don't need winter dormancy. I kept ficus and Brazilian rain trees inside for 18 months when I couldn't put them outside one year. However I did have them under full spectrum lights inside not just in a window.

 

[It's Kev]

@GunGoose try to spruce up your profile a little so we can see what your climate's like. If you have outside space, keep the trees outside.

I occasionally like to keep a tree on my desk to admire while i work, but for that i only choose shade tolerant or tropicals, and even those i cycle so they never spend more than a couple of days indoors. ficus or shefflera (not sure about BRT coz i don't have one)

if you wanna keep something indoors long term, think plants vs actual trees, think about a forest, all the trees are tall and up there where the sun is, below them you find low light things like mosses or ferns,


as for your pine, conifers are tricky because the time they start to look poorly they might be too far gone already, not gonna repeat what everyone else already said, but i keep mine in a spot that literally gets the least shade during the day

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Tropicals commonly fall under the classification of “house plants“ for a reason, many naturally grow in lower light conditions inder a tropocal canopy and like warm temps year round. Temperate trees do not. If you want to grow something indoors buy a fig or some other tropical but be prepared to do something to give even them more humidity than most houses have. I used to collect tropicals and still had to run a humidifier and mist them regularly a d provide additonal lights for some. Before attempting to grow plants at all find out their light, temperature, humidity, water, and general care requirements. Growing trees in pots is different than growing them in the groud.