Pest Preventative Spraying of Conifers/Evergreens in Winter Dormancy

[Deep Sea Diver]

We're not communicating well. I'm not sure if that's on me or not.

Spraying Horticultural oil and Lime sulfur in winter seems to provide a big knockdown of pests/pathogens. That means there's less need for OTHER sprays (...of other chemicals?) during the growing season. I'm not advocating for spraying oils ...or anything else actually ...during the growing season. I'm singing the praises of dormant sprays ...during dormancy.

Honestly we only use copper during the winter, yet our garden isn’t in the same area. Only systemic used in the past five years is imidicloprid for lace bugs on azaleas during summer after blooming.

Local knowledge and experience is key. However using local knowledge also presupposes the person advising is otherwise treating their trees the same way you are. Also assumes similar trees, same condition and microclimate. Nuances can be very important.

Is there anything I can do to try and preserve the Hinoki Cypress?

Not exactly clear exactly what the issue is. Photos
If the Hinoki is planted bare rooted in the ground might mulch so red dirt wont splatter. Landscape cloth might work better. Stay the course.

If it’s potted and in the ground pull it out and mulch it in as before. One could unpot and check the roots… black, mushy and/or smelly roots are clear indicators of root issues. If this is the case 3% H2O2 flush and repot. Others may have different solutions.

cheers
DSD sends
.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Honestly we only use copper during the winter, yet our garden isn’t in the same area. Only systemic used in the past five years is imidicloprid for lace bugs on azaleas during summer after blooming.

Local knowledge and experience is key. However using local knowledge also presupposes the person advising is otherwise treating their trees the same way you are. Also assumes similar trees, same condition and microclimate. Nuances can be very important.


Not exactly clear exactly what the issue is. Photos
If the Hinoki is planted bare rooted in the ground might mulch so red dirt wont splatter. Landscape cloth might work better. Stay the course.

If it’s potted and in the ground pull it out and mulch it in as before. One could unpot and check the roots… black, mushy and/or smelly roots are clear indicators of root issues. If this is the case 3% H2O2 flush and repot. Others may have different solutions.

cheers
DSD sends
.

Tree is in new burlap since 1 month/purchase, and was placed directly in ground up to base, straw and pine bark on top of soil.





These photos taken last week. I’ll try to update and gauge the spread.

 

[Paradox]

We're not communicating well. I'm not sure if that's on me or not.

Spraying Horticultural oil and Lime sulfur in winter seems to provide a big knockdown of pests/pathogens. That means there's less need for OTHER sprays (...of other chemicals?) during the growing season. I'm not advocating for spraying oils ...or anything else actually ...during the growing season. I'm singing the praises of dormant sprays ...during dormancy.

Lol OK the way you typed it and/or the way I read the comment, it seemed you were asking why there were no discussion of using dormant spays during the growing season

I agree using horticultural oils in the fall/early winter does help with controlling pests/fungi. Might even be a good idea to use just before taking out of winter storage in early spring before leaf emergence but I've never tried it

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Tree is in new burlap since 1 month/purchase, and was placed directly in ground up to base, straw and pine bark on top of soil.

Hmm. Generally looks pretty good. Does look like a root issue at this point. Landscape Hinoki can come in with a full sea bag of issues though.

Interior foliage on unpruned Hinoki in its natural state, tends to discard interior foliage for a number of reasons, age and lack of sun light being primary, fungus being secondary to the die off during fall and winter.

Wouldn’t hurt to lightly prune out all the dead interior/exterior foliage to allow air circulation/sun to get to the interior of the tree if one is up to it. Then spray top to bottom with copper. We use Bonide copper fungicide during dry spells. Be aware for spreading issues.

If this is your choice, keep rain off it for 3 days if possible. Suggest purchasing the concentrate and a spray bottle. Then mix up a bottle at a time. Will save lots of $$. Concentrate lasted us 4 years. Please use standard safety precautions… Eye/Gloves/Mask and long sleeves as a minimum. Avoid spraying when windy.

Last fall we were “gifted” a number of neglected bonsai. A Hinoki was one. Here’s a link to the thread written about this tree. One can see how much of the interior foliage had died off and what was viable by the end of the thread.

In contrast this is a photo of a small Hinoki Cypress in the landscape growing out. It was potted pruned back and branch reduced two springs ago, then put into the ground. Each year about now it is dug up, pruned back (under branches, pushed back, thinned as needed) to allow airflow and turned 180 when repotted.



Remember these guys do not back bud, so once spring comes around pruned to allow light in the interior to foster growth there, remove hanging growth, under branches and thin and push back branch tips as needed. Branch removal should only be done after studying the tree for a year or so. Be circumspect.

Gotta check out and get to work. Good luck.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Betula1]

Symptoms on your Hinoki Cypress resemble a foliar fungal infection rather than root / soil problems.
Could it be Phytophthora species eg P lateralis ? If you only bought it 1 month ago I suggest take it back to your supplier and ask what is wrong with it !

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Hmm. Generally looks pretty good. Does look like a root issue at this point. Landscape Hinoki can come in with a full sea bag of issues though.

Interior foliage on unpruned Hinoki in its natural state, tends to discard interior foliage for a number of reasons, age and lack of sun light being primary, fungus being secondary to the die off during fall and winter.

Wouldn’t hurt to lightly prune out all the dead interior/exterior foliage to allow air circulation/sun to get to the interior of the tree if one is up to it. Then spray top to bottom with copper. We use Bonide copper fungicide during dry spells. Be aware for spreading issues.

If this is your choice, keep rain off it for 3 days if possible. Suggest purchasing the concentrate and a spray bottle. Then mix up a bottle at a time. Will save lots of $$. Concentrate lasted us 4 years. Please use standard safety precautions… Eye/Gloves/Mask and long sleeves as a minimum. Avoid spraying when windy.

Last fall we were “gifted” a number of neglected bonsai. A Hinoki was one. Here’s a link to the thread written about this tree. One can see how much of the interior foliage had died off and what was viable by the end of the thread.

In contrast this is a photo of a small Hinoki Cypress in the landscape growing out. It was potted pruned back and branch reduced two springs ago, then put into the ground. Each year about now it is dug up, pruned back (under branches, pushed back, thinned as needed) to allow airflow and turned 180 when repotted.

View attachment 526834 View attachment 526835

Remember these guys do not back bud, so once spring comes around pruned to allow light in the interior to foster growth there, remove hanging growth, under branches and thin and push back branch tips as needed. Branch removal should only be done after studying the tree for a year or so. Be circumspect.

Gotta check out and get to work. Good luck.

cheers
DSD sends

Did you mean it “does not” look like a root issue? Or it “does look like” a root issue?

I treasured this tree as soon as I laid eyes on it. I want this tree to pull through until I can repot it in Spring. It was fine in the nursery ground and only started looking this way a couple weeks after bringing it home and going into my ground. I’m concerned since it seems to be slowly spreading upward it might continue and be irrecoverable by Spring.

My spidey-sense tells me right now it would not survive leaving the ground and going into a large container (not working anything in/on the root system). But I fear leaving it there may be fatal.

In the meantime, I will do as you suggested and lightly prune interior/browned/dead foliage that was shaded out and will acquire the Bonide you mentioned also for spraying.

 

[Dav4]

I have used horticultural oil During the growing season on red spider, mite infested junipers multiple times through the years. The trick is to dilute the oil appropriately – following the label directions – and to move the tree into shade for a few days. Other than a temporary color change, there have been no adverse effects to the foliage in my experience.

I also use horticultural oil as a dormant spray in the fall and late winter.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Hmm. Generally looks pretty good. Does look like a root issue at this point. Landscape Hinoki can come in with a full sea bag of issues though.

Interior foliage on unpruned Hinoki in its natural state, tends to discard interior foliage for a number of reasons, age and lack of sun light being primary, fungus being secondary to the die off during fall and winter.

Wouldn’t hurt to lightly prune out all the dead interior/exterior foliage to allow air circulation/sun to get to the interior of the tree if one is up to it. Then spray top to bottom with copper. We use Bonide copper fungicide during dry spells. Be aware for spreading issues.

If this is your choice, keep rain off it for 3 days if possible. Suggest purchasing the concentrate and a spray bottle. Then mix up a bottle at a time. Will save lots of $$. Concentrate lasted us 4 years. Please use standard safety precautions… Eye/Gloves/Mask and long sleeves as a minimum. Avoid spraying when windy.

Last fall we were “gifted” a number of neglected bonsai. A Hinoki was one. Here’s a link to the thread written about this tree. One can see how much of the interior foliage had died off and what was viable by the end of the thread.

In contrast this is a photo of a small Hinoki Cypress in the landscape growing out. It was potted pruned back and branch reduced two springs ago, then put into the ground. Each year about now it is dug up, pruned back (under branches, pushed back, thinned as needed) to allow airflow and turned 180 when repotted.

View attachment 526834 View attachment 526835

Remember these guys do not back bud, so once spring comes around pruned to allow light in the interior to foster growth there, remove hanging growth, under branches and thin and push back branch tips as needed. Branch removal should only be done after studying the tree for a year or so. Be circumspect.

Gotta check out and get to work. Good luck.

cheers
DSD sends

I found copper Bonide at Lowe’s for flowers, fruits and veggies. It doesn’t mention trees, shrubs though, only garden flowers/plants. I see also Daconil, Neem Oil (which I have already), and Bonide Hort/Dormant spray oil… and other various 3-in-1 sprays for trees, shrubs, conifers.

Hmm… standing here wondering which to get and use when I get home.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Hmm. Generally looks pretty good. Does look like a root issue at this point. Landscape Hinoki can come in with a full sea bag of issues though.

Interior foliage on unpruned Hinoki in its natural state, tends to discard interior foliage for a number of reasons, age and lack of sun light being primary, fungus being secondary to the die off during fall and winter.

Wouldn’t hurt to lightly prune out all the dead interior/exterior foliage to allow air circulation/sun to get to the interior of the tree if one is up to it. Then spray top to bottom with copper. We use Bonide copper fungicide during dry spells. Be aware for spreading issues.

If this is your choice, keep rain off it for 3 days if possible. Suggest purchasing the concentrate and a spray bottle. Then mix up a bottle at a time. Will save lots of $$. Concentrate lasted us 4 years. Please use standard safety precautions… Eye/Gloves/Mask and long sleeves as a minimum. Avoid spraying when windy.

Last fall we were “gifted” a number of neglected bonsai. A Hinoki was one. Here’s a link to the thread written about this tree. One can see how much of the interior foliage had died off and what was viable by the end of the thread.

In contrast this is a photo of a small Hinoki Cypress in the landscape growing out. It was potted pruned back and branch reduced two springs ago, then put into the ground. Each year about now it is dug up, pruned back (under branches, pushed back, thinned as needed) to allow airflow and turned 180 when repotted.

View attachment 526834 View attachment 526835

Remember these guys do not back bud, so once spring comes around pruned to allow light in the interior to foster growth there, remove hanging growth, under branches and thin and push back branch tips as needed. Branch removal should only be done after studying the tree for a year or so. Be circumspect.

Gotta check out and get to work. Good luck.

cheers
DSD sends

I pruned out some interior growth as recommended:




When finished, I sprayed with Bonide Copper Fungicide, as also recommended

Sprayed interior and exterior top to bottom. I also purchased Bonide Hort/Dormant spray to have on hand as needed.

 

[Japonicus]

I pruned out some interior growth as recommended:

Recommendation was...

...Wouldn’t hurt to lightly prune out all the dead interior/exterior foliage

Still, you didn't overdo it, so that's good.

Like Dave and Paradox I use the dormant oil for dormancy, but unlike Dave, I avoid it during the growing season.
Because if it's to that point I really need to spray, (foliage showing signs of pest) it will be at the recommended strength, not thinned down more.
Last year I had a bad case of spider mites due to the lack of preventative applications as done in the past.
I wanted to try to be less exposed to the chemicals myself, still I get a diagnosis of Parkinsons. It is not genetic in my case that I know of.
So you MUST heed @Deep Sea Diver 's flag about protection.

Is your hinoki still B&B? If so, plan on removing a large percent of it this Spring. April will be good.
In the meantime, remove all the black areas and continue to rotate the copper spray and Daconil per Paradox's input.
I would wait till it was out of the B&B clay to use Bonide granules. Wouldn't hurt to apply it to the edges of the pot or
wherever the finer feeder roots are if not in a pot in the ground now, but it will better uptake the product by roots once recovered
from 1st soil transition/potting. The overall health of your hinoki seems good, but this black is the 1st sign of trouble.
Looks like you've removed it? Also looks to be on the branches. Hinoki are thirsty trees, but won't tolerate saturated soil as with B&B
for too long. Most conifers won't.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Recommendation was...

Still, you didn't overdo it, so that's good.

Like Dave and Paradox I use the dormant oil for dormancy, but unlike Dave, I avoid it during the growing season.
Because if it's to that point I really need to spray, (foliage showing signs of pest) it will be at the recommended strength, not thinned down more.
Last year I had a bad case of spider mites due to the lack of preventative applications as done in the past.
I wanted to try to be less exposed to the chemicals myself, still I get a diagnosis of Parkinsons. It is not genetic in my case that I know of.
So you MUST heed @Deep Sea Diver 's flag about protection.

Is your hinoki still B&B? If so, plan on removing a large percent of it this Spring. April will be good.
In the meantime, remove all the black areas and continue to rotate the copper spray and Daconil per Paradox's input.
I would wait till it was out of the B&B clay to use Bonide granules. Wouldn't hurt to apply it to the edges of the pot or
wherever the finer feeder roots are if not in a pot in the ground now, but it will better uptake the product by roots once recovered
from 1st soil transition/potting. The overall health of your hinoki seems good, but this black is the 1st sign of trouble.
Looks like you've removed it? Also looks to be on the branches. Hinoki are thirsty trees, but won't tolerate saturated soil as with B&B
for too long. Most conifers won't.

What is the meaning of B&B? I’m making notes now as to the course of actions to take but want to be sure I know what B&B is.

 

[Japonicus]

What is the meaning of B&B? I’m making notes now as to the course of actions to take but want to be sure I know what B&B is.

Balled and burlapped not bead and breakfast lol.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Balled and burlapped not bead and breakfast lol.

Yes it is still in the condition upon removal from nursery: intact ball and burlapped snugly.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I wanted to try to be less exposed to the chemicals myself, still I get a diagnosis of Parkinsons. It is not genetic in my case that I know of.

So very sorry to hear this! Wishing you the very best.

So you MUST heed @Deep Sea Diver 's flag about protection.

Thanks! Just an added note when using hazardous chemicals… and a lot are recommended on this forum of greater or lesser danger… from a former Chemical Hygiene Officer

Before buying a a hazardous chemical please first google the name of the “chemical and SDS” (Safety Data Sheet) My research has shown most old guard chemicals used in bonsai, fungicide, miticide, pesticide etc are moderately to very problematic…. For example Daconil.

Then find the absolute newest SDS. Why? Because more research has been done in the past years and many hazardous chemicals have been found to be even more hazardous then originally advertised.

Why do I advocate SDS vs Product labels? Product labels have a lot of barely readable fine print and are not comprehensive. SDS while a bit complex are pretty much in plain language most folks can understand… maybe not completely so but better then 10 years ago… but it doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist to figure out if the miracle chemical advocated is something to be extremely careful with.

So please read the SDS carefully on a larger device, iPad, Surface or larger.
Then think about how to mitigate the hazards to yourself, your bonsai and the environment.

For example - here is a link to Daconil’s SDS

The most important section to start with is Section 3. Not saying all sections aren’t important and this thread isn’t the venue to go through the entire GHS system.

Hazard ratings often go 1- 3, with 1 being the most hazardous.​

Note​

Daconil is pretty toxic when inhaled​

Very Dangerous when in one’s eyes​

Very hazardous to get on the skin​

It’s a moderate carcinogen​

Will target one’s respiratory system.​

​

Next are Pictograms to show the hazards with standard symbols….​

​

Then a Signal word - either Warning or Danger. This chemical is listed as Dangerous.​

At the end of Section 3 are the Precautionary Statements to help a user understand what safety precautions to take. Daconil has a good long list to help the user. Please follow it to the letter.​

​

Reactions to many chemicals are often cumulative. Also no one has yet figured out exactly how hazardous chemicals​

​

Section 7 & 8 are also good to read. Be sure to store the product safely. Prudent practice is to store hazard chemicals in a separate leakproof container out of reach of other humans, pets and the sun.​

​

Remember we have still not figured out the true hazards of these chemical. Nor the synergistic effects with other chemicals.​

​

Here’s a copy of Daconil’s section 3. It’s two pages but pretty easy to read. Please read both pages.

.



Please don’t jump on the “rarely” statements. While we’ve done decent research longitudinal studies (over time) as well as synergistic studies (interaction effect when also exposed to other chemicals) are very rare.

One final note.

Chlorothalonil was banned in the EU and UK after it was found by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) to be a presumed carcinogen and a drinking water contaminant. The fungicide's metabolites are extremely persistent in water and their removal from drinking water is difficult and expensive. Jun 22, 2023

Please be safe!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deleted member 47471]

So very sorry to hear this! Wishing you the very best.


Thanks! Just an added note when using hazardous chemicals… and a lot are recommended on this forum of greater or lesser danger… from a former Chemical Hygiene Officer

Before buying a a hazardous chemical please first google the name of the “chemical and SDS” (Safety Data Sheet) My research has shown most old guard chemicals used in bonsai, fungicide, miticide, pesticide etc are moderately to very problematic…. For example Daconil.

Then find the absolute newest SDS. Why? Because more research has been done in the past years and many hazardous chemicals have been found to be even more hazardous then originally advertised.

Why do I advocate SDS vs Product labels? Product labels have a lot of barely readable fine print and are not comprehensive. SDS while a bit complex are pretty much in plain language most folks can understand… maybe not completely so but better then 10 years ago… but it doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist to figure out if the miracle chemical advocated is something to be extremely careful with.

So please read the SDS carefully on a larger device, iPad, Surface or larger.
Then think about how to mitigate the hazards to yourself, your bonsai and the environment.

For example - here is a link to Daconil’s SDS

The most important section to start with is Section 3. Not saying all sections aren’t important and this thread isn’t the venue to go through the entire GHS system.

Hazard ratings often go 1- 3, with 1 being the most hazardous.​

Note​

Daconil is pretty toxic when inhaled​

Very Dangerous when in one’s eyes​

Very hazardous to get on the skin​

It’s a moderate carcinogen​

Will target one’s respiratory system.​

​

Next are Pictograms to show the hazards with standard symbols….​

​

Then a Signal word - either Warning or Danger. This chemical is listed as Dangerous.​

At the end of Section 3 are the Precautionary Statements to help a user understand what safety precautions to take. Daconil has a good long list to help the user. Please follow it to the letter.​

​

Reactions to many chemicals are often cumulative. Also no one has yet figured out exactly how hazardous chemicals​

​

Section 7 & 8 are also good to read. Be sure to store the product safely. Prudent practice is to store hazard chemicals in a separate leakproof container out of reach of other humans, pets and the sun.​

​

Remember we have still not figured out the true hazards of these chemical. Nor the synergistic effects with other chemicals.​

​

Here’s a copy of Daconil’s section 3. It’s two pages but pretty easy to read. Please read both pages.

.View attachment 526913

View attachment 526912

Please don’t jump on the “rarely” statements. While we’ve done decent research longitudinal studies (over time) as well as synergistic studies (interaction effect when also exposed to other chemicals) are very rare.

One final note.

Chlorothalonil was banned in the EU and UK after it was found by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) to be a presumed carcinogen and a drinking water contaminant. The fungicide's metabolites are extremely persistent in water and their removal from drinking water is difficult and expensive. Jun 22, 2023

Please be safe!

cheers
DSD sends

This should be its own category, post, and stickied for all to see and read. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Scorpius]

And sooner or later your favorite fungicide becomes useless due to resistance, just like antibiotic resistance.

 

[Betula1]

Balled and burlapped not bead and breakfast lol.

Or in plain English just rootballed!!

 

[Japonicus]

Or in plain English just rootballed!!

I would've had no inkling of an idea what rootballed meant.
Never heard of it

 

[Paradox]

And sooner or later your favorite fungicide becomes useless due to resistance, just like antibiotic resistance.

Which is why it's recommended to rotate between products.

Fully agree with following safety recommendations for products. With any kind of spray product, it is not often mentioned in the MSDS, but it is advisable to spray when there is little to no wind and always be upwind when you spray. Better yet, also put the plant lower than your face when spraying in addition to wearing the appropriate protection to avoid inhalation.

Also keep pets away from the plant until everything is dry, better yet, if your benches are in the yard where your pets can be, move the plant to an area not accessible to your pets to spray, allow to dry then move back to the bench.

 

[Japonicus]

better yet, if your benches are in the yard where your pets can be, move the plant to an area not accessible to your pets to spray, allow to dry

Better yet....if you have more plants to spray than you have pets, move the pets till sprays dry
Agreed on rotation. I'm wondering if a yearly rotation, totally eliminating on alternate years would slow the build of resistance of any one product, rather than monthly or seasonal rotation? It might, as when all sprays are rotated within a particular year, then the pests or possible pests are exposed to each spray, just at a lower amount. Crop rotation comes to mind.